Suicide on 9/11 - Damned?

Originally posted by no1marauder
None as far as my ethics are concerned.

If you are unable to determine the difference then you are being irrational because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. Maybe you should accept KneverKnight's invitation to visit one of the families who lost someone in the september eleven attacks and explain to them why you think their loved ones committed suicide that day. You will be received very cordially but I'm afraid your departure will look kinda different.

As I told you before marauder you are the fundamentalist here. You are the irrational extremist. You fell into the pit you so enthusiastically dug for your enemies.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
If you are unable to determine the difference then you are being irrational because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. Maybe you should accept KneverKnight's invitation to visit one of the families who lost someone in the september eleven attacks and explain to them why you think their loved ones committed suicide that day. You will be received very ...[text shortened]... You are the extremist. You fell into the pit you enthusiastically dug for your ennemies.

Nice try.
Anyways, there could be 3 different scenarios.

1. A person is trapped on a ledge because of an electrical fault causing a fire and chooses to jump.
2. A person is trapped on a ledge because of some designed attack and chooses to jump.
3. A person has a terrible disease and chooses to end it sooner, rather than later.

First is suicide, 2nd is not and 3 is, if I understand you, sitting at home, in the comfort of your easy chair.

I see no difference to the person about to die.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Nice try.
Anyways, there could be 3 different scenarios.

1. A person is trapped on a ledge because of an electrical fault causing a fire and chooses to jump.
2. A person is trapped on a ledge because of some designed attack and chooses to jump.
3. A person has a terrible disease and chooses to end it sooner, rather than later.

First is suicide, ...[text shortened]... g at home, in the comfort of your easy chair.

I see no difference to the person about to die.

Well, maybe you will if you end up in such a situation.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Well, maybe you will if you end up in such a situation.

Who owns your life Ivanhoe?

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Who owns your life Inanhoe?

Why do you ask ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Why do you ask ?

I'm just interested.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
I'm just interested.

I doubt this.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
You have a talent for completely obscuring and confusing things. I wonder whether you do this because of your inability of having serious academic debate or whether you do it on purpose.

Please, Ivanhoe, tell us with my four options, which are and are not suicide and
why not. Show us how to debate academically.

Nemesio

Originally posted by ivanhoe
If you are unable to determine the difference then you are being irrational because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. Maybe you should accept KneverKnight's invitation to visit one of the families who lost someone in the september eleven attacks and explain to them why you think their loved ones committed suicide that day. You will be received very ...[text shortened]... re the irrational extremist. You fell into the pit you so enthusiastically dug for your enemies.

Why don't you stop for one day all your petty and childish vendettas and actually join in a discussion like an adult. You're a tiresome a**hole.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You are only proving their logical inconsistency and incoherency; Darfius was quite willing to condemn to Hell everybody who committed suicide. Nobody has shown any ethical difference between someone shooting himself to avoid an agonizing death through an incurable disease and the similiar decision the people on the Towers made.

Yes...nobody has made a connection there...but u would have to prove it is suicide or murder first????Makes me wonder why u get so angry talking about it.

Originally posted by windmill
Yes...nobody has made a connection there...but u would have to prove it is suicide or murder first????Makes me wonder why u get so angry talking about it.

I tried to on page 16 with four distinct examples.

Only a few people responded but none have provided reasons why their
opinions about the situations make any sense. Palynka seems to think
that a decision made at the brink of death is different than a decision
made when death is knocking at the door or when it is coming down the
hall.

I've simply asked what is his reason for this stance, because I don't see it.

Would you care to address my post on page 16?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio


You didn't answer my question directly in your other post: putting your hand on the
Good Book, are you really of the opinion that any of them thought they had a better
chance of surviving the 80+ story fall? Or do you think it is more reasonable to
conclude that they were jumping just to escape the pain?

Nemesio

I thought I made it pretty clear in my last post, but apparently I didn't make it clear enough:

Yes, I am of the opinion that it was very possible for a number of them to be thinking that they had a better chance of surviving if they jumped, than if they just stood there waiting for death.

That doesn't mean that it's not possible that many of them jumped off to escape the pain; this could also be the case. In fact, I think both are reasonable and probable.

Again, I am not arguing that your case is not right; I am saying that it could be a matter of both cases being true. Not everyone thinks the same way. For some, it could be just escaping the pain; for others, it could be thinking that they had at least a miniscule chance for survival if they did jump; for still others, it could be both.

Originally posted by Nemesio
I tried to on page 16 with four distinct examples.

Only a few people responded but none have provided reasons why their
opinions about the situations make any sense. Palynka seems to think
that a decision made at the brink of death is different than a decision
made when death is knocking at the door or when it is coming down the
hall.

I've simpl ...[text shortened]... his stance, because I don't see it.

Would you care to address my post on page 16?

Nemesio

Do you think the deaths of those in the twin towers were murder or suicide and why?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Why don't you stop for one day all your petty and childish vendettas and actually join in a discussion like an adult. You're a tiresome a**hole.

lol....Are you talking to the mirror?

Originally posted by Nemesio
I tried to on page 16 with four distinct examples.

Only a few people responded but none have provided reasons why their
opinions about the situations make any sense. Palynka seems to think
that a decision made at the brink of death is different than a decision
made when death is knocking at the door or when it is coming down the
hall.

I've simpl ...[text shortened]... his stance, because I don't see it.

Would you care to address my post on page 16?

Nemesio

But even if you establish all cases can be called suicide, this is only relevant to those people (a minority) who think suicide = hell in all circumstances.

I have given you some reasons why there is a moral difference between these cases (p19). Do you not agree?

It seem the Catholic church does not think suicide automatically means a one-way trip to hell.

What are you trying to prove?