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Originally posted by Conrau K
Presumably Abraham would have executed the command to kill his son. The important thing is that the goat would have lived.

So he would commit an immoral act.

It's funny, fantiscize about your neighbour's wife, and you're guilty of adultery, even if only in your heart, yet plan to murder your child and everything is fine.....

Originally posted by scottishinnz

It's funny, fantiscize about your neighbour's wife, and you're guilty of adultery, even if only in your heart, yet plan to murder your child and everything is fine.....

You have yet to read about Lot's two daughters.

Originally posted by Conrau K
You have yet to read about Lot's two daughters.

Don't worry, I know about that too...

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2642,n,n

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Don't worry, I know about that too...

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2642,n,n

That is the weirdest story in the Bible. I remember thinking in high school, they let us read this?. Meanwhile, my school bans a novel from its curriculum because it contains lesbianism.

Originally posted by Conrau K
That is the weirdest story in the Bible. I remember thinking in high school, they let us read this?. Meanwhile, my school bans a novel from its curriculum because it contains lesbianism.

Amnon and Thamar takes the biscuit though - not just incest, but rape too!

Oh book of all morals, is there nothing you can't justify??

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Amnon and Thamar takes the biscuit though - not just incest, but rape too!

Oh book of all morals, is there nothing you can't justify??

And then big brother gets pissed off and has his people kill Amnon. Nice finish.

Originally posted by josephw
Cheer up snow! All is not lost.
You scientist types are always splitting hairs it seems.

Quite frankly, it doesn't seem to make much difference whether it's abiogenesis or evolution. Both stem from the same root.

If evolution is not random, then design is implied. If abiogenesis explains the origin of life, and claims that it started randomly, then ...[text shortened]... one claim there is no God and says this whole thing got started by chance and is now evolving.

In order to understand accurately what is going on one needs to use words and definitions correctly. When you run fast and woolley with words it leads to woolley thinking and you might end up mistaking evolution with abiogenesis, next thing you know you will be saying 'thou shalt not kill' is an absolute moral imperative, and then wiping out people who do not think you are totally correct...

Originally posted by scottishinnz
[b]A man kills someone who attacked him without provocation.

Yeah, but just remember, Joseph would have rolled over and capitulated to Hitler and Stalin, right Joe?

Is it always absolutely morally wrong to kill, Joe??[/b]

Capitulate to Hitler?

Yes, it's always wrong to kill. But it would be equally wrong to stand by and allow someone to kill an innocent person.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Who was that guy again? The one God commanded to kill his own son?

Joe, in your opinion, what should he have done? Obeyed God's command, or disobeyed, since he would be committing an absolutely immoral act??

Gen. 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:

Do you think Abraham would have gone through with killing Isaac as God had commanded?

Think through your unbelief for a moment. You are unaware of things in the larger context. That's not an accusation. There's just too much to explain to you in this small space. And, since you don't believe there is a God, there is nothing I can say to you that would satisfy your empiricistic hunger. Do you really think I'm so primeval and subhuman and below the evolutionary scale, and that my way of thinking is subject to just the physical environment? Are you that certain there is no spirit? Something you can't see? As soon as you hear that I see the red flags go up in your head. You think I'm delusional, a throwback. I'm thinking, how strenuous it must be for the atheist to carry that load with that intellectual house of cards.

Take it easy now! I do this for fun. That, and I think I'm right. Not about everything all the time, but about some things I am. So are you. 😉

Originally posted by scottishinnz
But what if God hadn't?

What should he have done?

Personally, I'd tell any God which told me to kill my own son exactly where to go.

God will never tell YOU to kill your son. Don't worry about it!

Originally posted by josephw
You are unaware of things in the larger context.

And so presumably are you.

Are you that certain there is no spirit? Something you can't see? As soon as you hear that I see the red flags go up in your head.
I am yet to find a single theist which is willing to answer even basic questions regarding the soul / spirit. Its not so much that I dont believe such a thing exists but rather that the concept as explained to me by theists is incoherent, or does not match obvious facts.

You think I'm delusional, a throwback. I'm thinking, how strenuous it must be for the atheist to carry that load with that intellectual house of cards.
Well if it is me with the house of cards, why are theists so reluctant to discuss it? I have tried many times on this forum to discuss the soul/spirit and every single time, the thiests run away. What is stopping you from knocking over my house of cards?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
So he would commit an immoral act.

It's funny, fantiscize about your neighbour's wife, and you're guilty of adultery, even if only in your heart, yet plan to murder your child and everything is fine.....

I missed the part where the bible says everything that any of the biblical characters do is morally right. Even for the spritual leaders, the only one for which it claims they are without sin or fault is Jesus.


The part where "God told me to do it" gets a little more fuzzy for me. All of the wars initiated because "it was God's will", seem a little off to me. Maybe someone with a little more biblical knowledge can explain that one through for me one more time.

Originally posted by josephw
...it's always wrong to kill. But it would be equally wrong to stand by and allow someone to kill an innocent person.

OK, so we have two absolute moral laws that in some circumstances conflict? Then a person must confront a situation in which every course of action is absolutely morally wrong? That doesn't seem right.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And so presumably are you.

[b]Are you that certain there is no spirit? Something you can't see? As soon as you hear that I see the red flags go up in your head.
I am yet to find a single theist which is willing to answer even basic questions regarding the soul / spirit. Its not so much that I dont believe such a thing exists but rather that the co ...[text shortened]... single time, the thiests run away. What is stopping you from knocking over my house of cards?[/b]

"I have tried many times on this forum to discuss the soul/spirit and every single time, the thiests run away."

I won't run away. I'd love to discuss the topic of the soul and spirit.

Where do we begin?

Originally posted by josephw
God will never tell YOU to kill your son. Don't worry about it!

How could you possibly know that? Maybe you too are omniscient?