Originally posted by robbie carrobieJesus wasnt a jew, he new he was a spiritual being and this idea that someone is jew or catholic or muslim is not the true identity of the person but just a label......jew is just a label and jesus preached a higher consciousness that we are all one because we are all spirit (not the body).... and its impossible to have a jewish spirit or a christian spirit or a muslim spirit because these labels are bodily designations and therefore false.
actually Christ was a Jew, he observed the law, what that means is at the passover celebration he would have eaten meat, now i suggest you go away, get an education and come back to the forum, it can only do you good.
Just because jesus was born in jewland, didnt make him a jew, because he was above that false identification (because of birth)
The higher consciousness that jesus was trying to preach to the stupid dumb people at the time was rejected, and they killed him.
Jesus didnt follow jewish law, ....he rejected jewish law because it is all nonsense and still is.
vishva
Originally posted by FabianFnasThou shalt not kill....is a rule, but its not a rule because of the ten commandments, but it,s a rule because civilised men accept it.
Of course Jesus ate meat. Robbie is right in this.
If "thou shalt not kill" is a rule, then there would not be any war between the people of god and others. There was. And yet that has nothing to do with if Jesus was a vegetarian or not.
But who,s civilised these days, theres more wars now than ever.
For you to say jesus ate meat, means you know nothing of the requirements of the spiritual way of life, and you know nothing of a man that was born 2011 yrs ago, and to say you do is absurd.
vishva
Originally posted by vishvahetuclearly you are out of your depth, for all available documentation and corroborative evidence that we have to date from first century historians, both Christian, Jewish, Greek and Roman, state that Christ being born of Jewish parents would have acted in harmony with the beliefs and customs of his family. That you are woefully ignorant of what those beliefs and customs are is glaringly self evident from your posts. Please go away and feel your bum, or get someone else to do it, it may bring you a semblance of reality with which you can re-evaluate your unfounded and baseless claims.
Jesus wasnt a jew, he new he was a spiritual being and this idea that someone is jew or catholic or muslim is not the true identity of the person but just a label......jew is just a label and jesus preached a higher consciousness that we are all one because we are all spirit (not the body).... and its impossible to have a jewish spirit or a christian spir ...[text shortened]... follow jewish law, ....he rejected jewish law because it is all nonsense and still is.
vishva
Originally posted by vishvahetuCivilized men eat meat. Jesus ate meat. Eating meat has nothing to do with war.
Thou shalt not kill....is a rule, but its not a rule because of the ten commandments, but it,s a rule because civilised men accept it.
But who,s civilised these days, theres more wars now than ever.
For you to say jesus ate meat, means you know nothing of the requirements of the spiritual way of life, and you know nothing of a man that was born 2011 yrs ago, and to say you do is absurd.
vishva
Originally posted by vishvahetu=====================
Jesus wasnt a jew, he new he was a spiritual being and this idea that someone is jew or catholic or muslim is not the true identity of the person but just a label......jew is just a label and jesus preached a higher consciousness that we are all one because we are all spirit (not the body).... and its impossible to have a jewish spirit or a christian spir ...[text shortened]... follow jewish law, ....he rejected jewish law because it is all nonsense and still is.
vishva
Jesus wasnt a jew,
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Yes He was a Jewish man. In fact yes He still is. "You being a Jew, ask for a drink from me, who am a Samaritan woman? (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans) (John 4:9)
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he new he was a spiritual being and this idea that someone is jew or catholic or muslim is not the true identity of the person but just a label......jew is just a label and jesus preached a higher consciousness that we are all one because we are all spirit (not the body).... and its impossible to have a jewish spirit or a christian spirit or a muslim spirit because these labels are bodily designations and therefore false.
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Some "labels" are accurate. And you cannot say of all labels "Its just a label".
God incarnated as a man who was a JEW.
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Just because jesus was born in jewland, didnt make him a jew, because he was above that false identification (because of birth)
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No. Jesus geneology relates Him to David the king of the Jews in the Davidic kingdom. If Jesus were not a Jew He could not claim to be the Son of David, the Messianic King of the Jews.
It is true that Jesus Christ has many many functions and offices and appointments. And some are exceedingly transcendent. I agree with that.
That does not make Him not a Jew. He is God. He is man. He is God-man. He is the eternal divine life of God.
But He is a Jew of the tribe of Judah, a descendent of David yet through a virgin woman and not an earthly father. PIlate said that the Jews were His [Christ's] own people.
"Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Your nation and its chief priests have deivered You to me. What have You done?" (John 18:35)
Pilate was not misspeaking. Ethinically and nationally, Jesus was a Jew.
John writes "He came to His own,yet those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) . His own means His own Jewish people and culture.
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The higher consciousness that jesus was trying to preach to the stupid dumb people at the time was rejected, and they killed him.
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It is true that Jesus preaches higher things. That does not make Jesus NOT a Jew.
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Jesus didnt follow jewish law, ....he rejected jewish law because it is all nonsense and still is.
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He followed Jewish law. But He also demonstrated something that showed He was qualified to be thought of as the Source of the Law.
His pouringout of Himself on the cross unto death, for the redemption of sinners was following Jewish law of a sort. He was the final reality of the offerings of the Jewish law given by Moses.
Therefore in being the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world, Jesus certainly followed Jewish law.
He loved His Father with all His mind, all His heart, all His strength, and all His might. This was following the greatest commandment of Jewish law.
And His final act of submitting to crucifixion was following the law to the uttermost:
"For this is My blood of the covenant which is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matt. 26:28)
The atonement of a propitiatory offering for sins found its ultimate expression in the death of Jesus. This was according to Jewish law. So we could say Jesus died fulfilling Jewish law.
Of course He rose from the dead too. And He is for eternity a Jew.
Originally posted by jaywillI was a Christian for two decades. I did invite Jesus 'into my heart'. But eventually new evidence came along and persuaded me that it was false.
Evidence is different from persuasion.
There is ample evidence that you are a sinner.
Yet you may not be persuaded that you are a sinner.
There is ample eivdence that an unusual Man who claimed to be the Son of God went to the uttermost to do what He taught would save you from the penalty of your sinning.
Yet you may not be persuaded that th ...[text shortened]... ome into your own life. And this may not be an intellectual problem at all, but something else.
I saw from experience that it was not literally Jesus who transformed people or made them act better, nor was the transformation guaranteed. Rather, they decided to change their ways, and with moral support from the others in the congregation, some were able to do so. Some failed to do so and slid right back into their bad lifestyle.
It would have been much easier to remain a Christian, since nearly everyone in my family is a Christian. Evidence, however, persuades whether you want it to or not.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou foolish man, when jesus was born to jewish parents, as a child he had no say in what was forced down his throat, or what nonsense they told him.....but at a young age when he disowned all the crap, he travelled and became wise and knowledgable, and he came back and condemed the nonsense jewish teachings and their animal sacrifices (slaughter)....and for that they killed him.
clearly you are out of your depth, for all available documentation and corroborative evidence that we have to date from first century historians, both Christian, Jewish, Greek and Roman, state that Christ being born of Jewish parents would have acted in harmony with the beliefs and customs of his family. That you are woefully ignorant of what those ...[text shortened]... ng you a semblance of reality with which you can re-evaluate your unfounded and baseless claims.
If christians dont know what "thou shalt not kill " means then they have absolutely no authority what so ever about religious matters (get real)
Vishva
Originally posted by SwissGambitThankyou....the first sensible comment Iv,e heard for a long time.
I was a Christian for two decades. I did invite Jesus 'into my heart'. But eventually new evidence came along and persuaded me that it was false.
I saw from experience that it was not literally Jesus who transformed people or made them act better, nor was the transformation guaranteed. Rather, they decided to change their ways, and with moral support ...[text shortened]... ryone in my family is a Christian. Evidence, however, persuades whether you want it to or not.
vishva
Jaywill
You quote the bible but its not the authority, and it wasnt written by jesus, but by the corrupt ruling class, who worded the bible in such a way as to give it as much power as possible to control the people.
Every person who is truly enlightened and knowledgeable, knows that animal slaughter is sinfull and they dont partake in it..........so if the bible doesnt even know that, then its bogus.
vishva
Originally posted by vishvahetuYou come into this thread about the second coming of Christ and threadjack it severely with nonsense.
If christians dont know what "thou shalt not kill " means then they have absolutely no authority what so ever about religious matters (get real)
Christ was a Jew, of the House of David, of the Nation of Judah, as was mentioned previously. This cannot be dismissed as untrue by anyone who has a working understanding of what "truth" means. Unless you're just trolling, which I'm inclined to believe at this point, since you've gotten your way by derailing this thread.
By the way, the Hebrew words translated as "kill" as in "thou shalt not kill" actually is much closer to the meaning of our word "murder". I submit that it is you, sir, who doesn't know what "thou shalt not kill" means.
Originally posted by pink floyd123Could He have changed his mind? Or got sidetracked?
i would like to open this post to see if anyone outhere knows or cares that jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead and if you do is the time near or do you think its far in the future or do you feel hes not comming back any time soon
Maybe he has been a wafer a while?
19 Sep 10
Originally posted by pink floyd123I'm ready for the second coming of zombie jesus. I just need one clean shot.
i would like to open this post to see if anyone outhere knows or cares that jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead and if you do is the time near or do you think its far in the future or do you feel hes not comming back any time soon
Originally posted by vishvahetu=================================
Jaywill
You quote the bible but its not the authority, and it wasnt written by jesus, but by the corrupt ruling class, who worded the bible in such a way as to give it as much power as possible to control the people.
Every person who is truly enlightened and knowledgeable, knows that animal slaughter is sinfull and they dont partake in it..........so if the bible doesnt even know that, then its bogus.
vishva
You quote the bible but its not the authority, and it wasnt written by jesus, but by the corrupt ruling class, who worded the bible in such a way as to give it as much power as possible to control the people.
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The Bible is the word of God and is most authoritative. So I just do not believe your view that it hasn't any authority.
Secondly, what you say makes little sense. For example a passage like this does not at all appear to be design by people wanting to control other people:
"And He said to them, The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who have authority over them are called beneefactors. But you shall not be so, but let the greatest among you become like the youngest, and the one who leads like the one who serves." (Luke 22:25,26)
This is a teaching of humility rather then lording it over people. So the disciples would recognize the excercise of undue control to be against rather than for Christ's teaching.
And in Revelation 2 and 3 Jesus says He hates the works of the Nicoliatans. And He commends the church in Ephesus because it also hated the works and teaching of the Nicolaitans.
"But this you have, that you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." (Rev. 2:6)
The word Nicolaitans means "conquerors of the people" . Nico meaning conquer or victor and laitan meaning the common people or "laity".
So the conquering or rising above the laity or the common people, is something that the Lord Jesus hates. If those writing the New Testament were seeking to control the laity or common believers under a ruling class, they would never have put this verse in. It indicates that such a behavior of rising about the common people to control them is something Jesus hates. And He commends the Christian church in Ephesus that it also hated such behavior.
And there are many many other passages which would contradict your theory that the authors sought control.
As a matter of fact I think you are really speaking about your own desire to control people under the banner of Jesus. Your reinterpretation and errors of New Testament exegesis exposed your own ambition to have everyone follow YOUR lead.
I think your interpretation exposes your own ambition to control Christians. You presume to tell us what Jesus REALLY stood for. Yet at the same time you want to teach that the document from which you learned ANYTHING about Jesus at all is not trustworthy.
I think this is hypocritical.
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Every person who is truly enlightened and knowledgeable, knows that animal slaughter is sinfull and they dont partake in it..........so if the bible doesnt even know that, then its bogus.
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This shows that you are not very familiar with the Bible. For clearly God Himself, who instructed the Levitical priests in that system makes it clear the His view of it is not the same as their view. It was necessary. But it was not to his liking:
"He who kills an ox is like him who slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb, like him who breaks a dog's neck; He who offers a meal offering is like kim who offers theblood of swine." (Isaiah 66:3)
And many other passages show that this system was necessary to symbolize what God would do in Christ. But God took no delight in having to have these sacrifices.
So I think you are simply not that familiar with the Bible. And I hold the Bible as the authoritative divine revelation from God to man.
Originally posted by vishvahetuhahaha, yes i am a ragged clown simply chasing shadows, but at least i know what i am, your thoughts are neither original nor substantiated and like mist they dissipate into nothingness. You claim to know what Christ was taught, you claim to know where he travelled, you even claim to know why he was killed, yet you have no idea why he came. As yet, you have not produced one measly morsel of evidence to corroborate any of your second hand claims, and i must relegate your posts to the realms of mere opinion, unsubstantiated opinion at that, then as you reflect upon they way your words fall, neither reverberating against the sides of a chasm so as to echo, nor forming waves so as to reach a distant shore! you may be inclined to listen, to the sound, of silence.
You foolish man, when jesus was born to jewish parents, as a child he had no say in what was forced down his throat, or what nonsense they told him.....but at a young age when he disowned all the crap, he travelled and became wise and knowledgable, and he came back and condemed the nonsense jewish teachings and their animal sacrifices (slaughter)....and f n they have absolutely no authority what so ever about religious matters (get real)
Vishva