The apologetics game!

Originally posted by lemon lime
...what I really wanted to know is did you spend any time actually thinking about God? Did you really believe there is a God, or was your belief a sort of fuzzy acknowledgement of the possibility of God? Did you examine your belief the way you might examine anything else in your life, or to you does 'faith' simply mean you are supposed to believe without ...[text shortened]... atsoever? In other words, was your faith actually based on anything other than wishful thinking?

I was a Christian who thought about God and who accepted the Bible as evidence.

Originally posted by lemon lime
It doesn't sound like you ever did believe in anything outside of the physical reality we can all touch taste smell see and hear. I'm also guessing that most of your attention (if not all of it) centered around other members of your church and/or Christian community, and not so much on God himself.

I've heard a few people say this before. It is ~ I suppose ~ the easiest thing for you to say to an ex-Christian. But I was a Christian. Your doubts about that, and your projections, cannot reach back in time and alter what I believed and the way it animated my life in the past.

Originally posted by lemon lime
...your criticism of Christianity, and apparent agreement with atheists about the nature of God himself, sound suspiciously like any argument coming from a life long atheist who has never believed in the existence of God.

I see where you are coming from but you are wrong.

Originally posted by lemon lime
... your criticism of Christianity, and apparent agreement with atheists about the nature of God himself, sound suspiciously like any argument coming from a life long atheist who has never believed in the existence of God.

Something I have in common in with many atheists is that I do not believe the things that Christians claim about Jesus and their God figure.

Originally posted by FMF
I was a Christian who thought about God and who accepted the Bible as evidence.

Well, unlike you I'm one of those Christians who can't go back to being an atheist or an agnostic... and there have been days when I wish I could. It's one of those things I can't explain to you because if you've never seen it it's almost impossible to believe, but once you've seen it it's impossible to unsee it.

Don't get me wrong, by no means am I saying it's not do-able, but it does require that mustard sized seed of faith Jesus talked about just to get started. And many people can't (or won't) invest in so much as a tiny mustard sized seed of unseeing faith. I'm not saying this as a judgement, I'm saying this because it's a fact... starting from a standpoint of faith sounds like it should be easy, but it's not.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Well, unlike you I'm one of those Christians who can't go back to being an atheist or an agnostic... and there have been days when I wish I could. It's one of those things I can't explain to you because if you've never seen it it's almost impossible to believe, but once you've seen it it's impossible to unsee it.

Don't get m ...[text shortened]... it's a fact... starting from a standpoint of faith sounds like it should be easy, but it's not.

On reflection, and over a period of time, I came to realize that the Bible was not a credible body of evidence. Without it there was no basis to accept the claims Christians like you make about Christ.

Originally posted by lemon lime
It's one of those things I can't explain to you because if you've never seen it it's almost impossible to believe, but once you've seen it it's impossible to unsee it.

This is just a personal assertion on your part and I know, from personal experience, the crucial role such self-made, self-boosting 'axioms' play in shoring up the very detailed and carefully codified superstitions that you have.

Originally posted by FMF
I've heard a few people say this before. It is ~ I suppose ~ the easiest thing for you to say to an ex-Christian. But I was a Christian. Your doubts about that, and your projections, cannot reach back in time and alter what I believed and the way it animated my life in the past.

I've asked you some very specific questions you have chosen not to answer. And that's fine, I'm sure you have your reasons for not answering my questions. No one should feel compelled to answer every question put to them, and that includes questions many atheists will ask of Christians.

However, I have noted some rather pointed insistence coming from atheists demanding their questions be answered, rather than respecting the same right they feel they have to either answer or not answer. Has this been a consciously applied double standard here, or do you not see this?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I've asked you some very specific questions you have chosen not to answer. And that's fine, I'm sure you have your reasons for not answering my questions. No one should feel compelled to answer every question put to them, and that includes questions many atheists will ask of Christians.

I told you I was a Christian and that I thought about God and that I believed the Bible to be evidence etc. etc. I am not going to write a life story here. I dismissed your suggestions that I was not a genuine or committed or thoughtful Christian.

Originally posted by lemon lime
However, I have noted some rather pointed insistence coming from atheists demanding their questions be answered, rather than respecting the same right they feel they have to either answer or not answer. Has this been a consciously applied double standard here, or do you not see this?

You started by saying 'Based only on your brief description here it sounds like you were simply going through the motions" and I answered enough of your questions, I think ,to put this rather unimaginative assumption on your part to rest.

Originally posted by FMF
I told you I was a Christian and that I thought about God and that I believed the Bible to be evidence etc. etc. I am not going to write a life story here. I dismissed your suggestions that I was not a genuine or committed or thoughtful Christian.

I've also dismissed your assertion that I hold to some self codified superstition. What's good for the goose is good for the gander... unless you really do believe you're entitled to be the beneficiary of a self codified double standard.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I've also dismissed your assertion that I hold to some self codified superstition.

That's fine. We are here to trade opinions about things.

Originally posted by lemon lime
unless you really do believe you're entitled to be the beneficiary of a self codified double standard.

What "double standard"? I used to be a Christian, and you still are one. I think we can both accept these self-descriptions in good faith.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I've asked you some very specific questions you have chosen not to answer.

OK, so you didn't see how I rejected your assumption and therefore replied to what you had asked about without going through each little question. Here you go then, here are your questions answered item by item:

lemon lime: "However, aside from what you thought you should be doing as a Christian, what I really wanted to know is did you spend any time actually thinking about God? Yes Did you really believe there is a God Yes, or was your belief a sort of fuzzy acknowledgement of the possibility of God? No Did you examine your belief the way you might examine anything else in your life, Yes or to you does 'faith' simply mean you are supposed to believe without any evidence whatsoever? I felt my faith was based on evidence In other words, was your faith actually based on anything other than wishful thinking ?" Yes

Originally posted by FMF
You started by saying 'Based only on your brief description here it sounds like you were simply going through the motions" and I answered enough of your questions, I think ,to put this rather unimaginative assumption on your part to rest.

I did start by saying "Based only on your brief description...", but at the same I'm not ignoring what I've learned from our previous conversations.

To be fair, I should have recognized how anything said at these boards can be taken literally, even to the point of ridiculousness, so I probably should have omitted the word "only" from that first statement. I suppose it all depends on how anyone personally chooses to interpret what is being read.