21 Jun 05
Originally posted by Alpha10I saw the worst example of this I've ever seen in the paper yesterday. In New Zealand we have the Destiny Church. They are religious bigots basically. They believe that homosexuality should be outlawed, a woman's place is pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen and that the earth was created 6000 years ago. They are apparently set to wage war on the liberal government they believe is destroying the fabric of New Zealand.
1) The ever-present talk of money in our churches.
IF God is all powerful, why does he require that people give him money? Besides the point that he says to tithe.
Anyway their spiritual leader, Brian Tamaki, became a bishop on Sunday. The cost to watch this ceremony was NZ$70. Once there the congration was reminded "We take all major credit cards.". Also as they filed out they walked past a large table of Destiny Church merchandise; posters of Bishop Tamaki in warrior pose (with a broadsword) to umbrellas.
It just boggles the mind.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by XanthosNZDamn. Was that guy in LOTR?
I saw the worst example of this I've ever seen in the paper yesterday. In New Zealand we have the Destiny Church. They are religious bigots basically. They believe that homosexuality should be outlawed, a woman's place is pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen and that the earth was created 6000 years ago. They are apparently set to wage war on the liberal ...[text shortened]... of Bishop Tamaki in warrior pose (with a broadsword) to umbrellas.
It just boggles the mind.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeMany if not most missionaries do go else where with skills and a desire
What a waste. Why send missionaries to africa went you could sent experts to give training in the skills africa needs. Yeah, the missionaries can witness the lost as they starve to death. A child dies of curable diseases every minute and the best you can think of is to send missionaries.
Your wealth (in the USA) is built on a mountain of children's corpses.
to improve wherever it is they are going. I'd be willing to bet that
more often than not the same people that are both going and sending
money for missionaries are also doing more than just saying,
“Get right with God or else.” They are building Hospitals, schools,
orphanages and so on without the force of taxes taking away their
money they are giving because they believe it is the right thing to do.
Kelly
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by KellyJayI don't often get to agree with KellyJay, which is a shame because he seems like a pretty decent guy, so I will take this opportunity.
Many if not most missionaries do go else where with skills and a desire
to improve wherever it is they are going. I'd be willing to bet that
more often than not the same people that are both going and sending
money for missionaries are also doing more than just saying,
“Get right with God or else.” They are building Hospitals, schools,
orphanages and ...[text shortened]... aking away their
money they are giving because they believe it is the right thing to do.
Kelly
I have been attending churches of one kind or antoher for over 20 years and every missionary I ever met brought much more than spiritual healing when he/she went on a mission.
Food, education, medicine, a helping hand etc etc etc
It is one of the few things the church is doing right these days.
TheSkipper
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by tdbarkYour statement is incorrect...
...Looking back on it's history, Christianity... has been the "reason" for the slaughter and disfigurement of more people than communism, fascism, and islam combined. ...
Sorry for the diatribe, but I just dealt with a pushy christian recently who yelled out as I walked away that I was the "devil's minion...."
The # of people "killed by Christianity" is dwarfed by the killings resulting from the philosophies of Friedrich Nietze and Karl Marx by at least a factor of ten...
In the late 70s, I had a number of books which dealt with this subject... the most up to date research found that the # of deaths resulting in religious wars totaled approx three to four million... so give or take an extra million or two if you like... while the followers of Nietze and Marx managed to wipe out 57 million people over a mere 40 years stretch...
The Crusades pitted Christians and Moslems against each other... so the idea that the Crusades were just a bunch of Christians going around killing people is not accurate...they were at war, and Moslems were the enemy... the Moslems at that time were just as intent on killing the "infidels" as the Christians were.... incidentally, the word "infidel" was used by BOTH sides the the Holy Wars, and it meant exactly the same thing to both sides...
Of couse, today, it's ridiculous to lump Islam and Christianity together when it comes to killing... just look at the headlines...just today, a Suicide Car Bomber Killed 15 Iraqi Police... any guesses as to the 'religion' of the bomber?? Anyone? Anyone? And now they're even killing their own people... they don't give a rat's ass who they kill, they just wanna kill, baby...that's what they live for.
Islam today is a religion of death, destruction and terror... The work done by Christian disaster relief organizations and volunteers, for example, completely dwarfs anything done by entire Islamic Countries...
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by TheBloopCongratulations on marginalizing an entire religion based on the extremists.
Your statement is incorrect...
The # of people "killed by Christianity" is dwarfed by the killings resulting from the philosophies of Friedrich Nietze and Karl Marx by at least a factor of ten...
In the late 70s, I had a number of books which dealt with this subject... the most up to date research found that the # of deaths resulting in religious w ...[text shortened]... volunteers, for example, completely dwarfs anything done by entire Islamic Countries...
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by RBHILLYou are correct, RBHill, no one is born either a christian or a muslim. Everyone is born an atheist and then learns to become a christian, or a muslim, or whatever. Religion is a learned behavior.
Took the words out of my mouth, that you are not a Christian till you are born again. Just like no one is born a muslim.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by rwingettActually you are wrong, people are not born as an athiest, Thats somthing they choose later in life
You are correct, RBHill, no one is born either a christian or a muslim. Everyone is born an atheist and then learns to become a christian, or a muslim, or whatever. Religion is a learned behavior.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by rwingettTrue. Religion is a learned behavior.
You are correct, RBHill, no one is born either a christian or a muslim. Everyone is born an atheist and then learns to become a christian, or a muslim, or whatever. Religion is a learned behavior.
Then again, so is "tidying up after oneself."
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by TheBloopIn the late 70s, I had a number of books which dealt with this subject...
Your statement is incorrect...
The # of people "killed by Christianity" is dwarfed by the killings resulting from the philosophies of Friedrich Nietze and Karl Marx by at least a factor of ten...
In the late 70s, I had a number of books which dealt with this subject... the most up to date research found that the # of deaths resulting in religious w ...[text shortened]... volunteers, for example, completely dwarfs anything done by entire Islamic Countries...
Have you actually read entire works by Fredriche Nietzsche or Karl Marx? The amount of liberty you must take in order to associate Marx with those killed by later Communist regimes and the even greater amount of liberty to link Nietzsche to Nazism is certainly generous enough to make Jesus' philosophy responsible for the deaths of everyone from the Crusades to the conquest of the Americas to the the wars within Europe. Of course, since the link between Nietzsche and Hitler is no less tenuous than that between Christ and Hitler, some of the deaths you attribute to Nietzche should also be shared with Jesus. So the deaths from Jesus by your standards should total up near 30 million perhaps more.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by TheBloopYour statement too is (at least partially) incorrect:
Your statement is incorrect...
The # of people "killed by Christianity" is dwarfed by the killings resulting from the philosophies of Friedrich Nietze and Karl Marx by at least a factor of ten...
In the late 70s, I had a number of books which dealt with this subject... the most up to date research found that the # of deaths resulting in religious w ...[text shortened]... volunteers, for example, completely dwarfs anything done by entire Islamic Countries...
1. The philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche was twisted by the Nazis to turn him into an anti-Semitic proto-Nazi, which he was not.
2. When the crusaders captured Jerusalem, they slaughtered just about everyone: men, women, children; Muslims, Jews and Greek Orthodox Christians.
3. People twist philosophies and religions to their own ends. None of the major religions advocate terrorism or slaughter—but, again, their followers often twist them so (and please do not pick random quotes out of context from any of the holy books without having studied them, and the religion they apply to, as a whole first: you haven’t given any quotes, so that’s not an accusation, it just happens a lot here).
4. Arguing over “body-counts”—who killed more people when, to see which is the worst religion or philosophy—in the end seems kind of fruitless (and, yes, I know you were responding to a prior post).
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by flyUnityUh . . . you don't choose not to believe in God. You either believe or you do not.
Actually you are wrong, people are not born as an athiest, Thats somthing they choose later in life
If you do, then you are a theist.
If you do not, then you are not a theist.
Not a theist = an atheist.
Therefore, if you do not believe in a God you are an atheist.
QED.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by telerionno, when raised up on their childhood, he/she chooses whether they are athiest or non athiest based on the evidence they see in life. One isnt an athiest the instant their born.
Uh . . . you don't choose not to believe in God. You either believe or you do not.
If you do, then you are a theist.
If you do not, then you are not a theist.
Not a theist = an atheist.
Therefore, if you do not believe in a God you are an atheist.
QED.
Athiest means they dont believe there is a God, a newborn baby dont even know what a God is.
According to Christians, eveyone is born a sinner, not born as an atheist