21 Jun 05
Originally posted by telerionSo when Jesus teachs love your enemy, you equate everyone who
[b]In the late 70s, I had a number of books which dealt with this subject...
Have you actually read entire works by Fredriche Nietzsche or Karl Marx? The amount of liberty you must take in order to associate Marx with those killed by later Communist regimes and the even greater amount of liberty to link Nietzsche to Nazism is certainly generous eno ...[text shortened]... s. So the deaths from Jesus by your standards should total up near 30 million perhaps more.
[/b]
kills using Jesus name as a murder/death because of Jesus just
as someone following Hitler, killed on Hitler's orders? I believe it is
simply a death/murder because of someones twisted power grab
and using religion for their power grab, not a death/murder because
of Jesus.
Kelly
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by TheBloopDo you have this book?
Your statement is incorrect...
The # of people "killed by Christianity" is dwarfed by the killings resulting from the philosophies of Friedrich Nietze and Karl Marx by at least a factor of ten...
In the late 70s, I had a number of books which dealt with this subject... the most up to date research found that the # of deaths resulting in religious w ...[text shortened]... volunteers, for example, completely dwarfs anything done by entire Islamic Countries...
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance
with the will of the Almighty Creator."
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]
"This human world of ours would be inconceivable without
the practical existence of a religious belief."
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.152]
"What we have to fight for...is the freedom and independence
of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill
the mission assigned to it by the Creator."
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 125]
"And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his
estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary,
He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God."
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.174]
"It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but
the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god."
[Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 2]
"Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable
stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin
the fight for the 'remaking' of the Reich as they call it."
[Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 1]
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for
compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but
in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine."
[Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 1 Chapter 12]
and a speech:
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech on 12 April 1922
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by flyUnitySomeone who has no idea what god is is an implicit atheist, as opposed to being an explicit atheist. They are without belief in god. That makes them an atheist. All infants are born atheists. Some remain so. But most are subsequently taught to believe as their parents do. If you had an infant that was to be truly raised by wolves it would remain without any concept of god as it grew up and would thus be an implicit atheist.
no, when raised up on their childhood, he/she chooses whether they are athiest or non athiest based on the evidence they see in life. One isnt an athiest the instant their born.
Athiest means they dont believe there is a God, a newborn baby dont even know what a God is.
According to Christians, eveyone is born a sinner, not born as an atheist
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by frogstompIronic isn't it?
Do you have this book?
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance
with the will of the Almighty Creator."
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]
"This human world of ours would be inconceivable without
the practical existence of a religious belief."
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.152]
"What we have to fight for...is the freed ...[text shortened]... this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech on 12 April 1922
Jesus was a Jew.
Mein Kampf is bull.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by frogstompHiltler also spoke about (in Mein Kampf) "inferior races" destroying the work of "superior races" as in the barbarians destroying the Roman Empire, ignoring the fact that a lot of the barbarians were Germanic!
and Hitler was a christian ..not a particully good one ,,but one nonetheless.
Hitler wasn't so much a Christian, or a vegetarian, as a lunatic.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by KellyJayNo. I'm saying that Nietzsche's philosophy and Marx's philosophy was each warped and abused by later people who commited atrocities in the same way that the words of Jesus were warped and abused by some later xtians to commit atrocities.
So when Jesus teachs love your enemy, you equate everyone who
kills using Jesus name as a murder/death because of Jesus just
as someone following Hitler, killed on Hitler's orders? I believe it is
simply a death/murder because of someones twisted power grab
and using religion for their power grab, not a death/murder because
of Jesus.
Kelly
It's disingenious or more likely ignorant, as I doubt Bloop has actually read much if any of either philosopher, to connect these thinkers to the Nazi's or the Soviet communists.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by KneverKnightYes, from what I've read, he fused together a strange mix of Christianity and Volkism.
Hiltler also spoke about (in Mein Kampf) "inferior races" destroying the work of "superior races" as in the barbarians destroying the Roman Empire, ignoring the fact that a lot of the barbarians were Germanic!
Hitler wasn't so much a Christian, or a vegetarian, as a lunatic.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by telerionSome later "xtians" to commit atrocites? If they are not following
No. I'm saying that Nietzsche's philosophy and Marx's philosophy was each warped and abused by later people who commited atrocities in the same way that the words of Jesus were warped and abused by some later xtians to commit atrocities.
It's disingenious or more likely ignorant, as I doubt Bloop has actually read much if any of either philosopher, to connect these thinkers to the Nazi's or the Soviet communists.
Jesus but twisting his words you are still okay with calling them
Christian? You may as well than lay blame on Jesus as you may
as well blame Nietzsche and Marx for those twisting their words too.
Kelly
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by KneverKnightHe was indeed a lunatic, but there's more to christian dogma than Christ's words. A lot of christain stuff not only didn't come from Christ but actually nullifies him in favor of the OT lunacies.
Hiltler also spoke about (in Mein Kampf) "inferior races" destroying the work of "superior races" as in the barbarians destroying the Roman Empire, ignoring the fact that a lot of the barbarians were Germanic!
Hitler wasn't so much a Christian, or a vegetarian, as a lunatic.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by KellyJaysomething we actually agree on !
So when Jesus teachs love your enemy, you equate everyone who
kills using Jesus name as a murder/death because of Jesus just
as someone following Hitler, killed on Hitler's orders? I believe it is
simply a death/murder because of someones twisted power grab
and using religion for their power grab, not a death/murder because
of Jesus.
Kelly
now, just apply that to the leaders of the israelites and you can see what's wrong with saying "all scripture is inspired by god" ,, or revealed or whatever else is used to justify wholesale slaughter of the canaanites.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by rwingettI stand corrected
Someone who has no idea what god is is an implicit atheist, as opposed to being an explicit atheist. They are without belief in god. That makes them an atheist. All infants are born atheists. Some remain so. But most are subsequently taught to believe as their parents do. If you had an infant that was to be truly raised by wolves it would remain without any concept of god as it grew up and would thus be an implicit atheist.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by frogstompI think I know what you are saying, the things that were written later after what Christ had said had been written down by people who actually might have been there during his life.
He was indeed a lunatic, but there's more to christian dogma than Christ's words. A lot of christain stuff not only didn't come from Christ but actually nullifies him in favor of the OT lunacies.
I think it was the Skipper who started a thread on here that asked just how the book that the "Christians" call the Bible actually came to be written, when, and by who.