the bible is written in stone

Originally posted by knightmeister
Oh no! Watch out Joseph! ToO won't like that. You must be perfected before Christ will accept you.

😉

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

.....and I try to do that and sometimes I fall flat on my face and sometimes I do Ok. Jesus knows about it and forgives me even when I am tempted to not forgive myself.

...the other thing that Jesus did was to challenge wolves in sheep's clothing and stand up assertively to distortions of the Good news. So for me challenging you robustly and head on is quite Christ-like , even if at times I go over the top or become irritated and frustrated. The essence of my challenge to you is still to protect the truth from your counterfeiting. Of course , I understand that for you any challenge to you is seen by you as something else.

Originally posted by josephw
1John:8,9
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You really aught to read a little further along.

Think for a minute. An individual receives Christ as their saviour while still in their sins. t go there at the moment)

Spiritual growth is a process that can take years. It all depends.

1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

You really ought to read a little before.

"the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin", IF "we walk in the light".

The sin that needs to be acknowledged and confessed are the sins comitted PRIOR to overcoming sin.

Jesus doesn't seem to agree that "at the moment of conversion all their sins are forgiven them."

John 8:35
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever"

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but [b]if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, an ...[text shortened]... ' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'[/b]

......and how does Jesus cleanse us from sin? Here you are quoting stuff about how his blood is supposed to cleanse from sin and yet in other threads you have argued that communion ("this is my blood , given for the remission of sin"😉 is just an insignificant ritual???!!!

I have argued with you for hours about the importance of Christ's sacrifice for sin!!

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but [b]if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, an Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'[/b]

Let's keep this simple. I really don't know you or your theology, so I would ask you this simple question. Is salvation a free gift?

I don't want to argue about this, but if we could take it one step at a time I would appreciate it. Things just seem to spiral out of control around here, and then it all gets to complicated and confusing.

Originally posted by josephw
Let's keep this simple. I really don't know you or your theology, so I would ask you this simple question. Is salvation a free gift?

I don't want to argue about this, but if we could take it one step at a time I would appreciate it. Things just seem to spiral out of control around here, and then it all gets to complicated and confusing.

I guess that depends on what you mean by "salvation" and "free gift".

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I guess that depends on what you mean by "salvation" and "free gift".

I mean what the Bible teaches about salvation. Do you believe the Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift of God's grace?

I'm not trying to lure you into a trap. I'm very serious, and this is not a game. I take the Bible very seriously. What the Bible says is interpreted differently by people, and I believe that is a mistake. If God is the author of the Bible, then it stands to reason that He means what He says. So I believe we should be careful not to misinterpret it.
I know I have, and I know others have too. I would genuinely like to know what you think, and if I disagree I'll try to make as sound an argument as I can to try to persuade you to my way of thinking. And I'll try to listen to your argument as well. Let's see what we can do!

Originally posted by josephw
I mean what the Bible teaches about salvation. Do you believe the Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift of God's grace?

I'm not trying to lure you into a trap. I'm very serious, and this is not a game. I take the Bible very seriously. What the Bible says is interpreted differently by people, and I believe that is a mistake. If God is the author of t ay of thinking. And I'll try to listen to your argument as well. Let's see what we can do!

I wasn't thinking you were playing a "game".

The reason I asked for clarification is precisely because what the Bible says is interpreted differently by different people. That said, in order to answer your question properly, I need to know how you are using the terms. Surely you must recognize that telling me that you mean "what the Bible teaches" does little to clarify.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I wasn't thinking you were playing a "game".

The reason I asked for clarification is precisely because what the Bible says is interpreted differently by different people. That said, in order to answer your question properly, I need to know how you are using the terms. Surely you must recognize that telling me that you mean "what the Bible teaches" does little to clarify.

Okay. I just counted about 158 occurrences of the word salvation in my Bible. But I have selected this one, and I hope we can agree on what it's definition is together.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

Salvation, if one has it, means being saved. That implies that one was lost. I was lost, and now I am found. I am now saved from being lost. God's grace brings salvation to the lost.

Please feel free to correct, modify, elaborate, or otherwise expound.

Originally posted by josephw
Okay. I just counted about 158 occurrences of the word salvation in my Bible. But I have selected this one, and I hope we can agree on what it's definition is together.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

Salvation, if one has it, means being saved. That implies that one was lost. I was lost, and now I am fo ...[text shortened]... alvation to the lost.

Please feel free to correct, modify, elaborate, or otherwise expound.

I guess we could try to come to a agreement on what salvation is, but I was really simply looking to understand what you meant by your question. Just elaborate on what you were asking.

Some questions that come immediately to mind:
Saved from what?
Lost from where?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I guess we could try to come to a agreement on what salvation is, but I was really simply looking to understand what you meant by your question. Just elaborate on what you were asking.

Some questions that come immediately to mind:
Saved from what?
Lost from where?

Saved from the penalty of death because of sin.

Lost means separated from God because of sin.

Originally posted by josephw
Saved from the penalty of death because of sin.

Lost means separated from God because of sin.

Care to put it all together?

I thought about doing it, but it seems silly for me to present something and then ask you if that's what you mean.

Originally posted by pawnhandler
Envision a world in which everyone makes their own morals. Now I don't agree with a lot of what's passed off as Biblical teaching by people who ignore other things written in the same book. But a whole world full of people like my mother and uncle who think that however they want to screw people over for pleasure is OK because they make their own moral ...[text shortened]... al? No way. Ditto for being divorced, any particular religion, no particular religion, etc.

Everyone DOES make their own morals! People choose whether or not to follow the bible. Some do, most don't. Of the ones who do, they choose to follow it as they'd like. So some are conservative, some keep a couple of the commandments etc. Of the ones who don't they can fall into a million different categories with according subdivisions.

The thought that there is any one philosophy anyone prescribes too is ludicrous. There are as many sets of morals as there are people on the planet, plain and simple.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Care to put it all together?

I thought about doing it, but it seems silly for me to present something and then ask you if that's what you mean.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I believe that if we know anything about the truth, then we must go to the source of truth. Am I making myself clear? Do you see any ambiguity or error in what I am trying to say? Did I present a clear definition of what salvation is?

Originally posted by josephw
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Ro 1:16 For I am not ash ...[text shortened]... uity or error in what I am trying to say? Did I present a clear definition of what salvation is?

Do you really think that you've completely clarified your question? Your question was ambiguous because the terminology was not clearly defined. Try rephrasing the question so that it is clear.

We've already agreed that the Bible is interpreted differently by different people. Do you really think that cutting and pasting verses does anything to clarify what YOUR interpretation is?