The Challenge

Originally posted by twhitehead
Correct. But location is everything.

[b]Now for the pixels. Yes, a pixel is only a pixel seen individually. It takes more of them to form a letter. But a pixel is dead, therefore we are out of the 'living' property of a pixel kind of scenario.
But the pixels make the screen come to life. Without pixels you wont have the story. Without pixels you c sness into an advanced computer that could replicate your brain functions, would it be you?[/b]

No, I don't think location is everything. A carbon atom has mass, charge, velocity, and internal forces that helps it become stable, and many more properties than location. So, no, location isn't everything.

Science deals with natural phenomena. Religion deals with supernatural phenomena. With 'outside science' I mean if there is a supernatural property of an carbon atom, a property that science doesn't deal with? Homeopaths belives in such a property, but now I want to know what property of a carbon atom outside a body differs from an carbon atom inside a body. Is there some kind of a 'life property' involved?

Even a this letter is outside the scope I discuss. We can talk about this later, but for now, I narrowed the question about a carbon atom, and carbon atom only. An analogy cannot answer my specific question.

Do you perhaps believe an carbon atom has a concience? If not, let skip the concience part of the carbon atom.

Originally posted by twhitehead
If I copied your consciousness into an advanced computer that could replicate your brain functions, would it be you?

I think Descartes would have covered this point with "Cogito ergo sum".

The computer will have the memories of Fabian, the thought processes, and as far as the computer is concerned will be Fabian. He will just be a little shocked by his appearance when he looks in the mirror. 🙂

Also, if the computer Fabian was to meet the human Fabian, each will be claiming that the other one is the imposter.

Originally posted by lausey
Also, if the computer Fabian was to meet the human Fabian, each will be claiming that the other one is the imposter.

Yeah, right! 🙂

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No, I don't think location is everything. A carbon atom has mass, charge, velocity, and internal forces that helps it become stable, and many more properties than location. So, no, location isn't everything.

Science deals with natural phenomena. Religion deals with supernatural phenomena. With 'outside science' I mean if there is a supernatural propert ...[text shortened]... e an carbon atom has a concience? If not, let skip the concience part of the carbon atom.

Edit: “…but now I want to know what property of a carbon atom outside a body differs from an carbon atom inside a body. Is there some kind of a 'life property' involved?”


Cool!
I think your body and a rock are different consistent patterns of form and of interconnection, therefore the respective carbon atoms of these two objects cannot be seen separated from the major pattern of the form of each one of these two objects. Methinks the carbon atoms of both the body and the rock are entangled respectively with other atoms and elements within these two objects; if this holds, we are in front of the establishment of specific intimate connections that allow the body to be a body and the rock to be a rock. Thus, although the body and the rock are different objects, they both have their own carbon atoms within their forms.

In fact the observer universe seems to me an ultra complicated quantum entangled frame that is understood by means of our observations alone, thus of our consciousness alone that unentangles each observer’s predisposition to entanglement
😵

Originally posted by lausey
I think Descartes would have covered this point with "Cogito ergo sum".

The computer will have the memories of Fabian, the thought processes, and as far as the computer is concerned will be Fabian. He will just be a little shocked by his appearance when he looks in the mirror. 🙂

Also, if the computer Fabian was to meet the human Fabian, each will be claiming that the other one is the imposter.

Descartes knew that his dualism (matter and consiousness) means that these completely antithetical in their fundamental nature categories could interact solely by means of the invention known as "god". This division allows the theists amongst else to treat "matter" as completely separated from and different than "consciousness". Unfortunately for the ones who follow this approach, "matter" does have "mind-only" properties at the quantum realm of existence😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Edit: “…but now I want to know what property of a carbon atom outside a body differs from an carbon atom inside a body. Is there some kind of a 'life property' involved?”


Cool!
I think your body and a rock are different consistent patterns of form and of interconnection, therefore the respective carbon atoms of these two objects cannot be seen sep ...[text shortened]... of our consciousness alone that unentangles each observer’s predisposition to entanglement
😵

Cool? No, Coal, man, coal! Carbon!

Okay, the carbon atom has its specific location in a body or a ston, or more specific, its place in a crystal, or a molecule, or whatever. I'm trying to figure ot if there are carbon atoms with a life property (as carbon atoms in a DNA strand) and carbon atoms without the life property, as in coal or limestone. I havn't yet recieved an answer of this question.

Suppose you copy my Fabian body, atom for atom, to artificially make another Fabian. Will this new Fabian be a living Fabian? If not, what is the difference between the one typing these letters and the new produced one?

Suppose you artificially produce a DNA which is a real copy of my own DNA. One natural, the other one purely artificial. The natural DNA is of course produced of atoms from my own body, the other one is produced out of atoms that are lifeless. Is the two DNA alaik? Can one of them reproduce, and the other not?

Isn't this cool? Eh, coal? Oh, whatever...?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No, I don't think location is everything. A carbon atom has mass, charge, velocity, and internal forces that helps it become stable, and many more properties than location. So, no, location isn't everything.

But if I redistribute your atoms you will no longer be you. You will cease to exist. Your existence depends on the location of your atoms.

Science deals with natural phenomena. Religion deals with supernatural phenomena.
And I for one believe the term 'supernatural' is at worst meaningless and at best an attempt to avoid too many questions.

Is there some kind of a 'life property' involved?
I believe 'life' is merely a description we give to a rather interesting class of patterns. And no, it is not tied to the individual atom but is only seen at a much larger scale. (cells upwards).

Do you perhaps believe an carbon atom has a concience? If not, let skip the concience part of the carbon atom.
No, I do not believe a carbon atom has consciousness. But I equally do not believe that my consciousness is intimately tied to the atoms that make up my body. I believe my consciousness could theoretically be copied to another body.

Originally posted by twhitehead
But if I redistribute your atoms you will no longer be you. You will cease to exist. Your existence depends on the location of your atoms.

[b]Science deals with natural phenomena. Religion deals with supernatural phenomena.
And I for one believe the term 'supernatural' is at worst meaningless and at best an attempt to avoid too many questions.
...[text shortened]... make up my body. I believe my consciousness could theoretically be copied to another body.[/b]

But I will still be me, even if I get a heart transplanted from another human being? The only thing that cannot ever be transplanted is the brain. Because in the brain is my ego, my 'self', my brain is Fabian and no other part.

Supernatural is just a word that describes that it is not within normal nature, a nature that science cannot deal with. If it is used to avoid questions, then it is the scientific questions that cannot be dealt with within supernatural. Because supernatural phenomena is a part of religion.

The last paragraph of yours: "I believe 'life' is merely a description we give to a rather interesting class of patterns. And no, it is not tied to the individual atom but is only seen at a much larger scale." I would agree with you, but a dead body doesn't have life, albeit it has a very large scale, compared to a cell. Something lacks in your description. Would you like to develope your description so it covers it all?

Even if our toechnology is not advanced enoug to move from my Fabian brain into a silicon one, I too think it is possible. Not in many years (centuries?) but if science and technolody advances enough - yes.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Cool? No, Coal, man, coal! Carbon!

Okay, the carbon atom has its specific location in a body or a ston, or more specific, its place in a crystal, or a molecule, or whatever. I'm trying to figure ot if there are carbon atoms with a life property (as carbon atoms in a DNA strand) and carbon atoms without the life property, as in coal or limestone. I havn ...[text shortened]... Can one of them reproduce, and the other not?

Isn't this cool? Eh, coal? Oh, whatever...?

Edit: "I'm trying to figure ot if there are carbon atoms with a life property (as carbon atoms in a DNA strand) and carbon atoms without the life property, as in coal or limestone. I havn't yet recieved an answer of this question."


But I already told you: in my opinion, it is the establishment of specific intimate connections that allows the body to be a body and the rock to be a rock. These intimate connections are different from object to object. Methinks there is no such a thing as "life property" in an atom of carbon alone, although the living organisms do contain carbon atoms😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Edit: "I'm trying to figure ot if there are carbon atoms with a life property (as carbon atoms in a DNA strand) and carbon atoms without the life property, as in coal or limestone. I havn't yet recieved an answer of this question."


But I already told you: in my opinion, it is the establishment of specific intimate connections that allows the body t ...[text shortened]... perty" in an atom of carbon alone, although the living organisms do contain carbon atoms😵

Okay, I missed that. Let's see if I got it right... Eh... "In graphite carbon is black. In diamonds carbon is transparant. It depends on the molecule what carbon looks like, smells like, feels like etc." Right? And that's it? Okay.

I'm after the life property. The one that makes some matter alive, and other matter dead. A tough question. Indeed it is.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
But I will still be me, even if I get a heart transplanted from another human being? The only thing that cannot ever be transplanted is the brain. Because in the brain is my ego, my 'self', my brain is Fabian and no other part.

Supernatural is just a word that describes that it is not within normal nature, a nature that science cannot deal with. If it ...[text shortened]... ible. Not in many years (centuries?) but if science and technolody advances enough - yes.

A friend of mine X (wishes to remain anonymous) recently went to a private clinic to have a brain transplant.

X was offered a woman's brain for $100,000 or a man's brain for $1,000,000

"Why the big price difference?" X asked.

"Because ..." said the surgeon

........

























"The man's brain has hardly been used"

joke courtesy of my gf

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Ok, so all the dishonest atheistic scientists, say that life comes from matter, so if life comes from matter, so go and fetch some matter....now create some life.

If all the matter around us is creating life every day by itself, then a conscious scientist should be able to create life in their labratory.

I will make it very easy, go and create a lit ...[text shortened]... m the big big scientist.

So Iam waiting, I demand to see that little tiny ant created by you.

...or "They say cake comes from grain... go to a wheat field and make a cake".

Come on now...

P-

Originally posted by Phlabibit
...or "They say cake comes from grain... go to a wheat field and make a cake".

Come on now...

P-

how do you know there are no women in heaven?

(Revelation 8:1) And when he opened the seventh seal, a silence occurred in heaven for about a half hour. . .

😞

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Okay, I missed that. Let's see if I got it right... Eh... "In graphite carbon is black. In diamonds carbon is transparant. It depends on the molecule what carbon looks like, smells like, feels like etc." Right? And that's it? Okay.

I'm after the life property. The one that makes some matter alive, and other matter dead. A tough question. Indeed it is.

Methinks life is not a property of the atom of carbon; life is a phenomenon which, at least in our planet, eases the birth of organisms that they contain carbon amongst else😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Methinks life is not a property of the atom of carbon; life is a phenomenon which, at least in our planet, eases the birth of organisms that they contain carbon amongst else😵

But it takes matter to have life? Without matter, no life?
And this matter consists of atoms, which in turns have neutrons, protons and electorns of various number?
And these atoms, together, in a sufficient amount, combinated in a very specific way, to have life?