09 Oct 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasHow could I ever disagree with you over here, my Gota enemy? No matter, no life. However, matter in the quantum realm of existence has mind-only properties😵
But it takes matter to have life? Without matter, no life?
And this matter consists of atoms, which in turns have neutrons, protons and electorns of various number?
And these atoms, together, in a sufficient amount, combinated in a very specific way, to have life?
09 Oct 10
Originally posted by black beetleIt's always so pleasant to debate with you. And as noone else disagrees, then we have settled some kind of truth, haven't we?
How could I ever disagree with you over here, my Gota enemy? No matter, no life. However, matter in the quantum realm of existence has mind-only properties😵
The reason I conduct this line of reasoning is the following: Our dear friend OP told us "Ok, so all the dishonest atheistic scientists, say that life comes from matter", I would answer: Where else would life come from?
We have concluded that it takes matter to have life, that life is nothing but an highly organized matter, nothing more. It doesn't take any divine interaction to have life out of matter. That 'life' is not a mysterious property among the atoms that build up our bodies.
He says scientists are dishonest. I would say that this statement is very dishonest in itself.
09 Oct 10
Originally posted by FabianFnas😵
It's always so pleasant to debate with you. And as noone else disagrees, then we have settled some kind of truth, haven't we?
The reason I conduct this line of reasoning is the following: Our dear friend OP told us "Ok, so all the dishonest atheistic scientists, say that life comes from matter", I would answer: Where else would life come from?
We ha ...[text shortened]... ys scientists are dishonest. I would say that this statement is very dishonest in itself.
09 Oct 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasI would agree that life is not 'mysterious' nor is it more than a pattern of organized matter, but I wouldn't go so far as to belittle patterns or to even tie them too heavily to matter.
We have concluded that it takes matter to have life, that life is nothing but an highly organized matter, nothing more. It doesn't take any divine interaction to have life out of matter. That 'life' is not a mysterious property among the atoms that build up our bodies.
The number two it seems to me exists almost independently of matter. Similarly all patterns, though they must be represented by matter in order to be communicated, nevertheless are in some ways independent of the matter that communicates them.
The whole is most definitely more than the sum of its parts.
09 Oct 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadIt is very much easier to define life after its life properties, than to try to define life after its material properties.
I would agree that life is not 'mysterious' nor is it more than a pattern of organized matter, but I wouldn't go so far as to belittle patterns or to even tie them too heavily to matter.
The number two it seems to me exists almost independently of matter. Similarly all patterns, though they must be represented by matter in order to be communicated, never ...[text shortened]... matter that communicates them.
The whole is most definitely more than the sum of its parts.
Take a goldfish, put in in a blender along with water to support its life. The goldfish is alive, this far. Then start the blender and let it go for a minute or two. Now you don't have living goldfish anymore. Now it's dead. (*)
What happened? All its material, along with its life supporting water is still there, isn't it? So the spark of life is not to be found within its material content.
Life itself has another definition. A definition of life can be read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life#Definitions and not even this definition is non-controversial.
But I think that there is nothing supernatural about life. It's just - life.
(*) This is a thought experiment. Don't do it.
09 Oct 10
1 edit
Originally posted by vishvahetuGold is made up of protons, neutrons and electrons. Just ordinary components of matter. Nothing else.
Stop all the nonsense talk....and produce my ant!
If dumb matter can do it, then a conscious scientist must do it, and if they dont, then that is the lie exposed for all the world to see.
Now please produce for me some gold. If you don't then the lie is exposed! Gold is supernatural in origin!
Surely if dumb mater inside stars can do it then a conscious vishvahetu can do it! Maybe then you won't have to trawl these forums trying to sell your books!
09 Oct 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadumm gold is inanimate, an ant is not.
Gold is made up of protons, neutrons and electrons. Just ordinary components of matter. Nothing else.
Now please produce for me some gold. If you don't then the lie is exposed! Gold is supernatural in origin!
Surely if dumb mater inside stars can do it then a conscious vishvahetu can do it! Maybe then you won't have to trawl these forums trying to sell your books!
09 Oct 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou have two choices,.. show me the ant, or give up the lie!
Gold is made up of protons, neutrons and electrons. Just ordinary components of matter. Nothing else.
Now please produce for me some gold. If you don't then the lie is exposed! Gold is supernatural in origin!
Surely if dumb mater inside stars can do it then a conscious vishvahetu can do it! Maybe then you won't have to trawl these forums trying to sell your books!