"The Funnel"

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Gosh man... we dont have to make decisions for ourselves anymore after that post.

edit:I have to admit I got bored of just gong through and thumbing up and down in this thread, hence a written reply.

I really should be charging $$ for this sage advice, shouldn't I? 😛

Originally posted by FMF
Do you think consuming drugs is OK if one doesn't open oneself up to dependence on them, doesn't harm, deceive or coerce anyone, and if one doesn't commit any crimes against society as a result of consuming them e.g. driving under the influence, or stealing money to pay for them etc.?

What if no one gets "hurt" or no "crime" has occured? I suppose we revert back to the tale of Adam and Eve in the garden. It is just a harmless apple, but the apple led to what we have today. Our wisdom on such matters is often shortsided and falls short.

Originally posted by whodey
What if no one gets "hurt" or no "crime" has occured? I suppose we revert back to the tale of Adam and Eve in the garden. It is just a harmless apple, but the apple led to what we have today. Our wisdom on such matters is often shortsided and falls short.

Yes, what if no one gets hurt or no crime has occurred and the user does not allow it to lead to anything immoral? That is my question. If you do not personally have the "wisdom" to use drugs and your behaviour vis a vis drugs "falls short", why should this be the basis for a code of conduct that you think ought to be superimposed on others?

Originally posted by whodey
I heard a pastor make an interesting comparison between freedom and a funnel. Basically, the small end of the funnel symbolized a lack of personal freedom and the wide top of the funnel symbolized enhanced personal freedom.

So if you begin your journey doing as you please like having sex with whoever you desire, doing drugs because it feels good, dropping ...[text shortened]... lease and pleasure yourself, your personal freedom expands as the funnel is turned on its head.

Hmm, I like that!
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, what if no one gets hurt or no crime has occurred and the user does not allow it to lead to anything immoral? That is my question. If you do not personally have the "wisdom" to use drugs and your behaviour vis a vis drugs "falls short", why should this be the basis for a code of conduct that you think ought to be superimposed on others?

Because the vast majority of people lack sufficient self control to never get drunk even when drinking regularly or never get a girl pregnant even when having sex with a different one every night. So sometimes, as a society, we must make a blanket rule that is stricter than is necessary for some individuals. Of course each rule can be debated as well as how to enforce it, but the rules still need to be there.
For example, you may be quite capable of texting safely while driving, but since I know that many people are not, but are likely to be tempted to do so and lack the self control to refrain, I would rather have a law against the practice.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Because the vast majority of people lack sufficient self control to never get drunk even when drinking regularly or never get a girl pregnant even when having sex with a different one every night. So sometimes, as a society, we must make a blanket rule that is stricter than is necessary for some individuals. Of course each rule can be debated as well as h ...[text shortened]... d to do so and lack the self control to refrain, I would rather have a law against the practice.

The vast majority?

Originally posted by FMF
The vast majority?

Yes. Do you know anyone who drinks regularly and has never got drunk? I don't.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Because the vast majority of people lack sufficient self control to never get drunk even when drinking regularly or never get a girl pregnant even when having sex with a different one every night. So sometimes, as a society, we must make a blanket rule that is stricter than is necessary for some individuals. Of course each rule can be debated as well as how to enforce it, but the rules still need to be there.

You think there should be "blanket rules" forbidding people to get drunk or having sex with a different person two nights running?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes. Do you know anyone who drinks regularly and has never got drunk? I don't.

You want a law against getting drunk?

Originally posted by FMF
You want a law against getting drunk?

No. I am merely pointing out that many of us lack self control. As I said, one can argue about laws and when and why you apply them, but I do see good reason for having blanket laws in some instances even though there are some people who can engage in an activity without causing harm to themselves or others.

Laws I am mostly in favour of are those to do with particular excesses causing harm. So I do support a law against drunk driving. And again, it must be a blanket law. We cant allow those who are capable of driving drunk safely to go ahead and so so, and only arrest those who are dangerous when drunk driving.
Similarly I support a blanket law against texting while driving.
Here in SA, I have been fined for not stopping at a stop street, even though there was no other car in sight and what I did was perfectly safe.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No. I am merely pointing out that many of us lack self control. As I said, one can argue about laws and when and why you apply them, but I do see good reason for having blanket laws in some instances even though there are some people who can engage in an activity without causing harm to themselves or others.

Laws I am mostly in favour of are those to d ...[text shortened]... dangerous when drunk driving.
Similarly I support a blanket law against texting while driving.

You seem to have missed the point of what I was saying. I support a law against drunk driving.

Originally posted by FMF
You think there should be "blanket rules" forbidding people to get drunk or having sex with a different person two nights running?

There may even be instances where I would support a blanket rule against getting drunk. For example, at university, drunk people were quite a nuisance to others, especially to their room mates. So I would have supported a rule against getting drunk on campus.
Here in South Africa, I currently live in one of the two municipalities in the country that does not allow the sale of Alcohol.

Originally posted by twhitehead
There may even be instances where I would support a blanket rule against getting drunk. For example, at university, drunk people were quite a nuisance to others, especially to their room mates.

I would make the "nuisance" punishable, if necessary, not the drinking of alcohol.

Originally posted by FMF
You seem to have missed the point of what I was saying. I support a law against drunk driving.

No, I have not missed the point. I am merely saying there are some instances where blanket laws make sense - and it seems you agree with me. This contradicts the implication in your earlier question:

If you do not personally have the "wisdom" to use drugs and your behaviour vis a vis drugs "falls short", why should this be the basis for a code of conduct that you think ought to be superimposed on others?

So what if you know you can get home safely despite having to drive drunk? Maybe you don't live far from where you were drinking, and there are no other cars or people on the road at this time of night. Should we allow exceptions for those that know what they are doing?

Originally posted by twhitehead
No, I have not missed the point. I am merely saying there are some instances where blanket laws make sense - and it seems you agree with me. This contradicts the implication in your earlier question:
[quote]If you do not personally have the "wisdom" to use drugs and your behaviour vis a vis drugs "falls short", why should this be the basis for a code of ...[text shortened]... at this time of night. Should we allow exceptions for those that know what they are doing?

No. Drink driving is behaviour that poses a threat of doing actual harm to others no matter how good a driver the drinker thinks he or she is. I don't think I have contradicted myself at all.