The Gap Theory

Originally posted by sonship

I retract the post about RJhind obfuscating with a short reply about unjustified assumptions. I don't believe it was a fair representation of RJHinds attempt to talk about metaphor.

I apologize Hinds.

Now this portion from The Invisible War by Donald Barnhouse I find helpful to the subject to explain why the earth too was judged as indicated in Genesis 1:2 - "without form and void".

In view of these passages therefore, we believe that career of Satan should be outlined thus: He began on earth as its prince. He entered into heaven carrying the worship of his principality into the presence of God, even into the very throne room. So great was the power that he saw himself exercising on earth, greater than the power of lesser creatures stationed on various levels in the heavens, that he determined to move into heaven and take possession of its government. This is the heart meaning of the Isaiah passage with its series of "I wills." they are five cries of progressive desire for more and more power. They reflect the inner mind of Lucifer where his imagination had already moved him from his own throne on earth to the throne of God in heaven. Each succeeding declaration is one step beyond the last. The first, "I will ascend into heaven," is the demand that the sphere of his rule be lifted from earth to the heavens. Seeing himself as more glorious than the creatures used by God in the administration of the sanctuaries of heaven, he sets forth his extravagant claims that he will go up, up, up, even until he has displaced the Most High God on the throne of the universe.

His second pretension, "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God," is not a mere literary repetition of the previous clause. ... Another well-known passage occurs [about angels being stars, ie Rev. 12:4 ] "Whereupon are the foundations theeof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; when the morning stars sand together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:6,7) The careful Bible student will find other references which indicate that other angelic servants of God near this title. [angel / messenger] ...

... Indeed, he wanted to go even higher. He said in his heart, "I will sit upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north." ... In other words, Satan desired to have the position of government over the angelic hosts that were administering heaven.

This scene of government is "in the sides of the north." We leave the reader the delight of studying all the passages in the Bible which refer to heaven as being in the north. To a concordance list of such passages, we must not forget to add the word from the Psalm: "Promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, not from the south, but God is the judge" (Psalm 75:6,7) ...

We next read that Lucifer declared, "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds" .... These clouds are not what we see in the sky, but are the visible marks of a glory far transcending human thought and for which there is no word which could evoke any image in our thinking. This is the symbol of the glory of God and the very throne of heaven. Above this Satan desired to climb.

From "The Invisible War" by Donald Barnhouse, Revell, pages 47-49. [My bolding]

Originally posted by sonship
Continued from [b]"The Life Study of Ezekiel by Witness Lee

According to the Bible Egypt is a nation that depends not on God but on its own resources. Egypt had the Nile River as the resource of its riches. Thus, the Egyptians did not depend on the rains from heaven but on the water from their Nile. In addition, they exercised their wisdom t ...[text shortened]... fe. We all need to be on the alert that none of us would become these kinds of persons.

[/b]

That is fine, but perhaps you should take Pember's book with a grain of salt and realize it is the work of a man and not God inspired. I still see nothing from these quotes from Witness Lee that proves a hugh gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is fine, but perhaps you should take Pember's book with a grain of salt and realize it is the work of a man and not God inspired. I still see nothing from these quotes from Witness Lee that proves a hugh gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Pember himself tells the reader to take the book "with a grain of salt" so to speak.

Here he cautions the reader that there are limitations on how much can be known about Lucifer's past.

Let us, then, consider the scanty hints which the Bible seems to offer in regard to this mystery. But we must tread lightly and rapidly over the bridge which we shall attempt to throw across the foaming torrent: for we cannot be sure of its foundation: nay, in the darkness of the night there may also be serious defects in its construction. Yet the revelation to which we shall refer was given for our learning, and, like all Scripture, is profitable, even if we fail to grasp the secret contained in it, provided we handle it with reverence and fear (2 Tim. iii.16).

Before you warned us, the author himself, in humility, gave warning.

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is fine, but perhaps you should take Pember's book with a grain of salt and realize it is the work of a man and not God inspired. I still see nothing from these quotes from Witness Lee that proves a hugh gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

I still see nothing from these quotes from Witness Lee that proves a hugh gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Witness Lee, as far as I know, didn't dwell on the length of time as to duration. Witness Lee did teach it was before Adam was created and given deputy authority over that world repaired and bearing some new creating in Genesis 1.

I am the one who is not allowing you to bully around that the interval could NOT possibly have been a million years or more. It could have been.

Such an understanding preserves that God is the ultimate Creator. And it also takes into account the words of the book of Job.

We only know the outskirts of His ways. There is much God has done that we only know a whisper of.

Originally posted by sonship

I still see nothing from these quotes from Witness Lee that proves a hugh gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Witness Lee, as far as I know, didn't dwell on the length of time as to duration. Witness Lee did teach it was before Adam was created and given deputy authority over that world repaired and bearing some new creating in ...[text shortened]... only know the outskirts of His ways. There is much God has done that we only know a whisper of.

Moses wrote,

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

(Exodus 20:11 KJV)

Do you believe Moses when he said the LORD made the heaven and earth in six days or do you believe the atheist who claim it took billions of years?

HOW DO YOU RECONCILE WHAT MOSES WRITES TO YOUR GAP THEORY OF MILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF YEARS?

HalleluYaHshua ! Praise the LORD!

Originally posted by RJHinds

Moses wrote,

Praise the Lord, not only Moses wrote, but God SAID.

Moses wrote,

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

(Exodus 20:11 KJV)

Do you believe Moses when he said the LORD made the heaven and earth in six days or do you believe the atheist who claim it took billions of years?

I believe God made heaven and earth in six days.
If God created the universe "in the beginning" and something was judged, damaged, made waste and void, made topsy-turvy, made "helter skelter" or made "tohu va-bohu" and then God repaired that in six days Exodus 20:11 is still true.

HOW DO YOU RECONCILE WHAT MOSES WRITES TO YOUR GAP THEORY OF MILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF YEARS?

HalleluYaHshua ! Praise the LORD!

I think you should shout the praises in capitals.

The passage uses a word that does not have to mean CREATE. He MADE the heaven and earth in six days.

We've been through this many times before brother Hinds.

God made [asah] the heavens and the earth in six days. It does not say God created [bara] them in six days. That is what Moses wrote. That is what the Holy Spirit who is God, spoke through the prophet.

There are many times in the Old Testament where asah forms part of someone's personal name. In Second Samuel 2:18 we read Asahel meaning "God has appointed."

In First Kings 12:31 the word asah it is used for what Jeroboam did to the lowest of the people ... "appointed" them to be priests.

" And he made a house of high places and appointed priests from among the people who were not from the sons of Levi." ( 1 Kings 12:31)

In Second Kings 12:14 we have Asahiah meaning "Jah has appointed."

In First Chronicles 4:35 we have Asihel which means "appointed of God."

The word asah is used for dressing a calf for a meal or preparing it (Gen. 18:7,8; Judges 13:15). The meal was not created out of nothing but underwent dressing and preparation to make ready to enjoy.

The word is used in connection to the trimming of one's nails in Deut. 21:12. Nails were not created but worked upon to put into a suitable condition -

"You shall bring her within your house, and she shall shave her head, trim her nails ..." (Deut. 21:12)

I think in Esther 1:5 asah is used for the action of preparing a feast for the court -

"And when these days were completed, the king held a banquet for seven days for all the people found in Susa the capital ..."

The word asah is used for the action of God preparing clothes which God made for man -

"And Jehovah God made for Adam and for his wife coats of skins and clothed them." (Gen. 3:21)

The word is used for clothing which man makes for himself -

"And you shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother, for glory and for beauty." (Exodus 28:2)

Arthur Custance says that the word always involves working over something which already exists, and usually with a view to changing its form.

So I believe that God [asah] the heavens and the earth and all that is in them in six days (Exodus 20:11). And I believe He worked up that which He had "created" in the beginning at some unknown duration of time before we see the earth without form and void in Genesis 1:2.

Now I agree we should exalt and praise the Lord for the preciseness of His word. And we do not have to INSIST we know the age of the universe is 6,000 years or so, to be orthodox Christians.

Hallelujah - Praise the Lord! Jesus is Lord!

HOW DO YOU RECONCILE WHAT MOSES WRITES TO YOUR GAP THEORY OF MILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF YEARS?

I simply closely examine what the Bible really says. We don't know when "the beginning" was. We know He [asah] made the world for Adam in six days.

Originally posted by sonship

Moses wrote,

Praise the Lord, not only Moses wrote, but God SAID.

[quote] Moses wrote,

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

(Exodus 20:11 KJV)

Do you believe Moses when he said the LOR ...[text shortened]... n't know when [b]"the beginning" was. We know He [asah] made the world for Adam in six days.[/b]

We know that the beginning was when God made man, male and female, because Jesus said so. We also know that heaven and earth was created and made in the beginning also, because moses said so.

The fact that the matter used to make the heaven and earth had to be created before they were actually formed does not mean both could not have been done in the beginning six days.

To say that the earth was damaged and had to be repaired is not written in the text, and even if it were, there is no reason to think God did not create, make, and repair it in the beginning six days as is recorded in Genesis by Moses.

The only reason you and others want to add millions and billions of years in there is because you do not believe God could do it and you need all that time to allow evilution to occur.

Originally posted by RJHinds

The only reason you and others want to add millions and billions of years in there is because you do not believe God could do it and you need all that time to allow evilution to occur.

Have you considered that if 'evolution' is actually part of God's plan for creation, you are repeatedly blaspheming by calling it 'evilution?'

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Have you considered that if 'evolution' is actually part of God's plan for creation, you are repeatedly blaspheming by calling it 'evilution?'

Not really, because evilution contradicts creation in my opinion. Most if not all atheist evilutionists agree with that.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Not really, because evilution contradicts creation in my opinion. Most if not all atheist evilutionists agree with that.

Linking atheism with evolution, as if 2 sides to the same coin, is one of your many misunderstandings.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Not really, because evilution contradicts creation in my opinion. Most if not all atheist evilutionists agree with that.

Not quite.

It helps remove any and all need of creation and a creator to explain anything.

But then a creator god doesn't explain anything anyway.

A creator god could always make a world such that it looks like it evolved.
Although if you then require people to believe otherwise that's a pretty sucky
and mean and pointless thing to do.

Evolution is not by itself a contradiction of creation.

What is, is the philosophy and reasoning that underlies it.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Not quite.

It helps remove any and all need of creation and a creator to explain anything.

But then a creator god doesn't explain anything anyway.

A creator god could always make a world such that it looks like it evolved.
Although if you then require people to believe otherwise that's a pretty sucky
and mean and pointless thing to do.

Ev ...[text shortened]... self a contradiction of creation.

What is, is the philosophy and reasoning that underlies it.

I beg to differ. (Just a figure of speech.) 😏

From "The Invisible War" by Donald Grey Barnhouse

Concerning the gap between Gen 1:1 and 2:

In any event the curtain of darkness fell on the first act. The interval may be counted short from God's point of view, and yet long from the scientist's point of view. A child counts a year as a long time; an adult has learned differently. From the point of comparison with eternity, the intervals of time are but flashing instants.

It is therefore of no importance how men may theorize about the time length necessary to form some of the scars of judgment that are upon our world and upon the dead and the dying sun. Fallen man may be unwilling or unable to identify these scars with the marks of the wounds of sin and with the judgment of a holy God whose nature blazed forth to reveal both itself and its enemy. But it can be scarcely expected that men, who will not recognize similar wounds in their own hearts and who will not acknowledge their distance from their Creator, should see clearly into the spiritual nature of the judgments that once took place on this earth.

Satan's Helplessness

Whether the interval between the scenes is counted in man's moments or God's aeons, it finally came to an end, and the second act of this universal drama was ready to begin. At last the Spirit of God moved into the realm of Lucifer and began to brood upon the face of the black waters of earth. Without this divine activity the world would have remained forever in the murky night of divine judgment which shrouded its chaotic state. Not only was it impossible for the darkness of earth to transform itself into light, but Satan had no power to alter the chaos which pride had brought down upon his province.

A journalist has said that the idea of unscrambling an egg is the symbol of the impossible. When God wrecked Satan's realm He confronted the fallen cherub with just such a problem. Satan's ruined principality lay before him. As long as it was shrouded in the darkness of the judgment, it was hidden from the gaze of the angelic hosts. But light was to break upon the judged creation. The pretender who had claimed that he would be like the Possessor of heaven and earth was to be revealed as a braggart unable to dissipate a cloud or re-form a clod. He was to lie in naked impotence before all creation. It would now be seen that he who had the power to bring destruction had no power to create, and he who had called followers to worship his wisdom was to see that wisdom proved powerless. He would not bring order to that which God had marred. How this must have accentuated the bitter gnawing in the heart of Satan.

[ The Invisible War , Donald Grey Barnhouse, Zondervan, pgs 62,63 ]

What happened after the long interval of time after Lucifer's world was judged? Donald Barnhouse -

The shining of light into the waste and desolate creation must have brought Satan to instant attention. Although in the Genesis account Satan first appears on the sixth day when God made man, we may be sure that he had not been unconcerned during the previous days. From the very first moment when the Lord spoke the Word that brought light shining out of darkness, Satan was aware that God had intervened in what the fallen angel had come to look upon as being his own possession.

It is important to remember that Satan has always looked upon this world as his personal property. There is much that will remain incomprehensible if we overlook this fact. When Lucifer first awoke to consciousness, it was with the knowledge that he was ruler. When he was first placed in authority, it was by the edict of God who created him the cherub anointed for high purposes. God had said, "I have set thee so" (Ezekiel 28:14); and even in his fallen state Christ called him "the prince of this world" (John 14:30). When the Lord Jesus Christ met the blasphemy of the Pharisees who had suggested that His power was Satanic, He did it with an answer which recognized the principality of Satan: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth. If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand?" (Luke 11:17,18). Where the Lord Himself recognized that Satan possessed a kingdom on earth, how can we imagine that Satan was without a supreme sense of his own lordship? True, Satan had failed in his first attempt to increase his power outside the earthly sphere where God had set him. Yet he still had his principality, and would work tenaciously to hold it and would resist every attempt, even by God, to encroach upon it. If God should try to endow Adam, this intruder, with a lordship in Satan's domain, Satan would seek to alter the relationship and make Adam his own creature. Satan wanted power. It was sweet to him, and he would fight for it.

[ From The Invisible War, Donald Grey Barnhouse, Zondervan, pg. 64 ] (my bolding)

Originally posted by sonship
What happened after the long interval of time after Lucifer's world was judged? Donald Barnhouse -

[quote] The shining of light into the waste and desolate creation must have brought Satan to instant attention. Although in the Genesis account Satan first appears on the sixth day when God made man, we may be sure that he had not been unconcerned during ...[text shortened]... ote]

[ From [b]The Invisible War, Donald Grey Barnhouse, Zondervan, pg. 64 ] (my bolding)[/b]

No evidence yet of any gap of millions or billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. 😏

HalleluYaHshua ! Praise the LORD!