16 Sep 19
@fmf saidFortunately, I am talking to a self-described Christian and your statement is irrelevant.
The degree of traction that "It is because it is"-type moral 'arguments' have when people assert them to other people who already agree with them ~ within whatever communal feedback loop their religious beliefs trap them in ~ is neither here nor there when you are talking to people outside your religion.
16 Sep 19
@philokalia saidPresumably, you believe that most human beings will be burned in hell for all of eternity ~ and that only "few" will be saved ~ in light of Matthew 22.
I have stated before that I do not know what the criteria is for going to hell, so I am not sure about the numbers with that at all.
16 Sep 19
@philokalia saidSo your pretentions about your farfetched and morally incoherent assertions ~ about torture being "objective" ~ are dismantled, then.
Fortunately, I am talking to a self-described Christian and your statement is irrelevant.
16 Sep 19
@fmf saidI believe that Matthew 22:14 applies to the people who consciously reject Christ.
Presumably, you believe that most human beings will be burned in hell for all of eternity ~ and that only "few" will be saved ~ in light of Matthew 22.
Luke 12 has a good illustration of what happens with those who are ignorant of the situation.
I have hope for the salvation of many, but I am ultimately not to judge, due to Matthew 7:1.
I can say this: there is a school of thought that 1/3 of the Angels fell to hell, and that the angels were as "numerous as the stars" (which is a gigantic number), and that humans are supposed to become the replacements for the angels that fell. This is a very, very great number, of course.
This interpertation is found in the Catholic tradition. I do not know if this speculation is true, but I do have hope that there will be many billions of people in Heaven.
A saint who I cannot name off of the top of my head has said that we will also be very surprised with who we will see in heaven, and also who we will not see. I also think of this. So, we can be sure that this statement is true as it is from a Saint.
However, I am unsure about anything exact as it pertains to these things and would need to study more.
16 Sep 19
@fmf saidWhy would I say that a part of the revealed truth is objectively true, in the sense that it is publicly verifiable evidence?
So your pretentions about your farfetched and morally incoherent assertions ~ about torture being "objective" ~ are dismantled, then.
I did not say that. ^^
16 Sep 19
@philokalia saidI'm just trying to salvage something from all your waffle. So you basically agree with what I was saying about subjectivity on the Truth- Absolute or Relative? thread to KellyJay?
Why would I say that a part of the revealed truth is objectively true, in the sense that it is publicly verifiable evidence?
I did not say that. ^^
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121515
16 Sep 19
@philokalia saidYou don’t know the criteria for going to hell but you are certain it exists and that Jesus will be in there overseeing the burning?
I have stated before that I do not know what the criteria is for going to hell, so I am not sure about the numbers with that at all. I cannot judge. Only God can.
Jesus the merciful, right.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121515
16 Sep 19
@philokalia saidThis is a just conjecture.
I believe that Matthew 22:14 applies to the people who consciously reject Christ.
Luke 12 has a good illustration of what happens with those who are ignorant of the situation.
I have hope for the salvation of many, but I am ultimately not to judge, due to Matthew 7:1.
I can say this: there is a school of thought that 1/3 of the Angels fell to hell, and that th ...[text shortened]... wever, I am unsure about anything exact as it pertains to these things and would need to study more.
16 Sep 19
@fmf saidWhat is the statement you are asking me to agree or disagree with. ^^
I'm just trying to salvage something from all your waffle. So you basically agree with what I was saying about subjectivity on the Truth- Absolute or Relative? thread to KellyJay?
16 Sep 19
@divegeester saidI am certain it exists.
You don’t know the criteria for going to hell but you are certain it exists and that Jesus will be in there overseeing the burning?
Jesus the merciful, right.
I do not know if Christ will be there overseeing it. I'm aware of the passage in Revelations about it. But, to what degree it means, I am unsure. ^^
We send ourselves to hell through our actions and choices, and God saves us from hell as well even though our sins are enough to merit hell. That is merciful.
16 Sep 19
@philokalia saidThe stuff on that thread. You were a contributor. Don't worry about it.
What is the statement you are asking me to agree or disagree with. ^^
16 Sep 19
@philokalia saidThis contortion comes across like self-parody. Sounds like you want to strut the hardnose torturer god ideology on one hand, but, on the other, you also want to hedge and be wishy-washy about it.
We send ourselves to hell through our actions and choices
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121515
16 Sep 19
1 edit
@philokalia saidWhat a load of made up nonsense. Why can’t the so called Christians in this forum be honest!
I am certain it exists.
I do not know if Christ will be there overseeing it. I'm aware of the passage in Revelations about it. But, to what degree it means, I am unsure. ^^
Rev 14:10-11
“If anyone uworships the beast and its image and receives va mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink wthe wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.”
What is it about the phrase “in the presence of the Lamb” that you feel unsure about?