The Hagia Sophia

@philokalia said
The feeling of travesty.

You grew up with a feeling of “travesty” about what?

@divegeester said
You grew up with a feeling of “travesty” about what?

chattel slavery of Black people

(Phrasing courtesy of FMF)

@philokalia said

chattel slavery of Black people

(Phrasing courtesy of FMF)

But becoming a Christian didn’t make you feel more offended by it as you did with the occupation of the Hagia Sophia?

I ask because earlier you were talking about slavery in the bible as being a “concession” by god and that coupled with your reputation for hold racist views.

@divegeester said
But becoming a Christian didn’t make you feel more offended by it as you did with the occupation of the Hagia Sophia?

I ask because earlier you were talking about slavery in the bible as being a “concession” by god and that coupled with your reputation for hold racist views.

I am not sure how very old, very ingrained feelings about Black chattel slavery in the 17th-19th century would need to be revisited for some new insights after conversion any more than, say, sitting down and contemplating the Holocaust, the Khmer Rouge, the Holodomor, etc., in a new light would entail.

OF course, it is a radical transformation.. but these historical events are first understood through the political or historical mind, and the metaphysical aspects of life and death that I now subscribe to certainly have some different aspects to them, but this does not change the conclusions that I largely made before from a political or historical perspective. ^^

@philokalia said
I am not sure how very old, very ingrained feelings about Black chattel slavery in the 17th-19th century would need to be revisited for some new insights after conversion any more than, say, sitting down and contemplating the Holocaust, the Khmer Rouge, the Holodomor, etc., in a new light would entail.

OF course, it is a radical transformation.. but these historical ev ...[text shortened]... not change the conclusions that I largely made before from a political or historical perspective. ^^

Wow, and there was me thinking slavery was just obviously immoral.

@philokalia said
I am not sure how very old, very ingrained feelings about Black chattel slavery in the 17th-19th century would need to be revisited for some new insights after conversion any more than, say, sitting down and contemplating the Holocaust, the Khmer Rouge, the Holodomor, etc., in a new light would entail.

OF course, it is a radical transformation.. but these historical ev ...[text shortened]... not change the conclusions that I largely made before from a political or historical perspective. ^^

Anyway, yes yes....

But becoming a Christian didn’t make you feel more “personally offended” by it as you did with the occupation of the Hagia Sophia?

@divegeester said
Anyway, yes yes....

But becoming a Christian didn’t make you feel more “personally offended” by it as you did with the occupation of the Hagia Sophia?

You know there's a special relationship between orthodoxy and the Hagia Sophia, yes?

@philokalia said
You know there's a special relationship between orthodoxy and the Hagia Sophia, yes?

You know there’s a special relationship between Christ and human freedoms, yes?

@philokalia said
You know there's a special relationship between orthodoxy and the Hagia Sophia, yes?

When you say "Hagia Sophia" are you talking about the building or the saint?
I can't see a "special relationship" between either and Eastern Orthodoxy.
What is it?

@divegeester said
You know there’s a special relationship between Christ and human freedoms, yes?

So you believe that Christ desired the immediate manumission of all slaves..? Or you believe that Christ believed His message would result in starting a process that promoted manumission and human liberty?

@wolfgang59 said
When you say "Hagia Sophia" are you talking about the building or the saint?
I can't see a "special relationship" between either and Eastern Orthodoxy.
What is it?

Well, the thread is about the Church.

I have not heard of the Saint, but maybe that's the joke.

@philokalia said
Well, the thread is about the Church.

I have not heard of the Saint, but maybe that's the joke.

What do you think Hagia means? 😵

Anyway ... what is this "special relationship" between building and Eastern Orthodoxy?

@philokalia said
So you believe that Christ desired the immediate manumission of all slaves..? Or you believe that Christ believed His message would result in starting a process that promoted manumission and human liberty?

I believe that slavery in any form is wrong, you don’t.

Prove me wrong.

@divegeester said
I believe that slavery in any form is wrong, you don’t.

Prove me wrong.

It's a very admirable moral stance.

I think it is unrealistic, but I generally agree with you on it, as far as things go.

So, why would I do that?