The Hagia Sophia

@philokalia said
It's a very admirable moral stance.

I think it is unrealistic, but I generally agree with you on it, as far as things go.

I think slavery is morally wrong and you think my stance is “unrealistic”. How is slavery being immoral “unrealistic”?

You “generally agree” that slavery is immoral... ok so when would be the exceptions?

What does “as far as things go” mean?

@divegeester said
I think slavery is morally wrong and you think my stance is “unrealistic”. How is slavery being immoral “unrealistic”?

I guess I should have used more words.

It is noble to believe that lying is immoral; but when we are talking about it in a greater context, it is impossible to consider a world in which no lies are ever done.

Or, to consider a world in which no animals are killed, or no humans killed, etc.

@divegeester said
You “generally agree” that slavery is immoral... ok so when would be the exceptions?

What does “as far as things go” mean?

In previous ages, prisoners of wars being converted into slavery in some circumstances makes a lot of sense. It's better than executing them, and releasing them was not practical because you would have to fight them again.

In previous ages, it also makes sense that some people could sell themselves into slavery and others take them in as slaves when this was the only means left for them due to famine and the likes.

@philokalia said
It is noble to believe that lying is immoral; but when we are talking about it in a greater context, it is impossible to consider a world in which no lies are ever done.

How is my believing that slavery is immoral “unrealistic”?

@philokalia said
In previous ages, prisoners of wars being converted into slavery in some circumstances makes a lot of sense. It's better than executing them, and releasing them was not practical because you would have to fight them again.

In previous ages, it also makes sense that some people could sell themselves into slavery and others take them in as slaves when this was the only means left for them due to famine and the likes.

You were asked what the exceptions to slavery being immoral were, not what aspects of slavery are commercially or militarily expedient.

It is interesting to watch how you make these moral convolutions across dozens of posts as you seek to justify your racism using the bible and your so-called Christianity to help you, while you immediately and passionately blurt your “personal offence” at the Hagia Sophia being used by Muslims.

@philokalia said
I guess I should have used more words.

Just lie if you are struggling.

@philokalia said
You know there's a special relationship between orthodoxy and the Hagia Sophia, yes?

We don't.
I'd really like to hear it.

Also - how do you account for your special interest in
Hagia Sophia and you don't know what "Hagia Sophia" means?

@divegeester said
How is my believing that slavery is immoral “unrealistic”?

It is unrealistic in the sense that it puts forward absurd norms for all time that are actually going to produce more evil than good, but you believe that it would produce more good than evil because you do not have a realistic understanding of historical circumstances and norms.

@wolfgang59 said
We don't.
I'd really like to hear it.

Also - how do you account for your special interest in
Hagia Sophia and you don't know what "Hagia Sophia" means?

Write a post presenting your views, or don't. I do not really care.

But posing as an interrogator and possessor of some secret knowledge that I have to wheedle out is really lame, and there are enough posters that use this as their MO.

@divegeester said
You were asked what the exceptions to slavery being immoral were, not what aspects of slavery are commercially or militarily expedient.

It is interesting to watch how you make these moral convolutions across dozens of posts as you seek to justify your racism using the bible and your so-called Christianity to help you, while you immediately and passionately blurt your “personal offence” at the Hagia Sophia being used by Muslims.

To correct a misunderstandings:

My post dealt with it by naming some circumstances in which it is the best choice among available options.

@divegeester said
You were asked what the exceptions to slavery being immoral were, not what aspects of slavery are commercially or militarily expedient.

It is interesting to watch how you make these moral convolutions across dozens of posts as you seek to justify your racism using the bible and your so-called Christianity to help you, while you immediately and passionately blurt your “personal offence” at the Hagia Sophia being used by Muslims.

There are millions of people all over the world starving and living in abject poverty, unable to feed their children. Many of these people would happily sell their lives [become a slave] to someone who can afford to feed, house and clothe them and their children, and work in return. Slavery is not immoral if it is done humanely as the bible recommends.

@philokalia said
Write a post presenting your views, or don't. I do not really care.

But posing as an interrogator and possessor of some secret knowledge that I have to wheedle out is really lame, and there are enough posters that use this as their MO.

You asked this question:
You know there's a special relationship between orthodoxy and the Hagia Sophia, yes?

And I replied and asked a question of my own.

And you call that interrogation?

What is the special relationship between orthodoxy and the Hagia Sophia that you speak of?

And I was curious how you knew about it.

@philokalia said
So, why not put a question directly to me, in a clear context, so I can make a comment on it, and then I can elaborate to provide clarification.

More evasion. You're sounding a bit furtive.

@philokalia said
It is unrealistic in the sense that it puts forward absurd norms for all time that are actually going to produce more evil than good, but you believe that it would produce more good than evil because you do not have a realistic understanding of historical circumstances and norms.

My belief that all slavery is morally wrong is both “unrealistic” and “absurd” and some forms of slavery produce some “good” somehow in your view of historical “norms”.

Keep going Philokalia....

@rajk999 said
Slavery is not immoral if it is done humanely as the bible recommends.

Slavery is moral if it is humane and biblical.

It’s ok to beat children.

Spiritual salvation is by personal effort.

Right...