The Holy Spirit

Originally posted by no1marauder
It's mockery rather than insults. And you were the one who foreclosed discussion by suggesting non-theists couldn't possibly understand the Holy Spirit, so you weren't gonna tell so there. You've spent a bunch of posts pretending that you can judge whether explanations of the color red to a blind person would be sufficient when: A) You ain' ...[text shortened]... ice. So what is anybody discussing, but how rigid and inflexible your "thought processes" are?

Give me the way a blind person can understand the color 'red' and
I'll admit I was wrong, I have already told you that! So far I have
seen someone say, I'll give them numbers and tell them they belong
to the color spectrum. That as I have pointed out, only gives them
numbers and words that have no meaning by one born blind. Seeing
is an experience, and without eyes that see, one is blind. I don’t need
to be blind to know what not seeing is, I only close my eyes.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Give me the way a blind person can understand the color 'red' and
I'll admit I was wrong, I have already told you that! So far I have
seen someone say, I'll give them numbers and tell them they belong
to the color spectrum. That as I have pointed out, only gives them
numbers and words that have no meaning by one born blind. Seeing
is an experience, ...[text shortened]... e is blind. I don’t need
to be blind to know what not seeing is, I only close my eyes.
Kelly

Tell a blind person that you totally understand how it is to be blind because you can shut your eyes, KellyJay. Your ignorance is truly astounding sometimes.

Originally posted by no1marauder
It's mockery rather than insults. And you were the one who foreclosed discussion by suggesting non-theists couldn't possibly understand the Holy Spirit, so you weren't gonna tell so there. You've spent a bunch of posts pretending that you can judge whether explanations of the color red to a blind person would be sufficient when: A) You ain' ...[text shortened]... ice. So what is anybody discussing, but how rigid and inflexible your "thought processes" are?

”It’s mockery rather than insults”
Someone who is supposedly understands the English language,
you should know that your claims you are not insulting me, but
mocking me is a farce. It is a distinction without a difference.
You cannot even be honest about this, why should I care what
you say? Nothing that comes from you when you talk to me is
an honest attempt to understand my position, it is has been only
to insult me. If I ever thought you were attempting to have a
discussion without insults or mockery, I’d think someone broke
into your account and was trying to make you out to be a nice
person.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Give me the way a blind person can understand the color 'red' and
I'll admit I was wrong, I have already told you that! So far I have
seen someone say, I'll give them numbers and tell them they belong
to the color spectrum. That as I have pointed out, only gives them
numbers and words that have no meaning by one born blind. Seeing
is an experience, ...[text shortened]... e is blind. I don’t need
to be blind to know what not seeing is, I only close my eyes.
Kelly

Try this:

: How do blind people come to know color?


Andrea (age 21)
Tiffin University
Tiffin, Ohio


A:
It would seem as if a truly blind person (not just someone who is partially blind, or "legally" blind, or became blind sometime in life) would never be able to experience colors in the way that someone can see does. Nonetheless, we can describe in words all about what colors are.

Different wavelengths of visible light have different colors, and mixtures of light of different wavelengths have different colors. A blind person can feel the thermal energy deposited by light, and so can be convinced that light exists and carries energy. Then it is just a matter of description of what light is and its properties. I'm afraid that for a blind man this may remain abstract and unverifiable, and he may just have to take his friends' word for it all.

You can give a blind person a device that senses light and emits sound or shakes or something, depending on the dominant color of the light striking it. In that way, the blind person can explore what colors are present when and where, but it still may be a bit of an abstraction.

We do the same sorts of things in experimental science, since there are lots of things we cannot directly sense with our eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin, but can sense with the aid of equipment. Such as infrared radiation, X-rays, lots of colorless, odorless gases, and other things.

Now that you mention it, there is a property of some elementary particles which is whimsically called "color", which plays the role of the electric charge, but for the strong nuclear force instead of the electromagnetic force. Color isn't directly observable, so in a great sense, we are all "blind" to this particular property. But it has lots of observable consequences, so we are happy with the abstraction, even if the name color is somewhat meaningless in this context.

Tom

http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Light_and_Sound/Colors/20031117132433.htm

Originally posted by no1marauder
Tell a blind person that you totally understand how it is to be blind because you can shut your eyes, KellyJay. Your ignorance is truly astounding sometimes.

I can put myself into the position of not being able to see for a short
time, but to know what it is like to be blind for a life time, no. You
have yet to attempt to show me how you'd make a person born blind
understand the color 'red', am I to assume you not going to try, but
instead try to make this about me?
Kelly

Originally posted by no1marauder
Try this:

: How do blind people come to know color?


Andrea (age 21)
Tiffin University
Tiffin, Ohio


A:
It would seem as if a truly blind person (not just someone who is partially blind, or "legally" blind, or became blind sometime in life) would never be able to experience colors in the way that someone can see does. ...[text shortened]...

Tom

http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Light_and_Sound/Colors/20031117132433.htm

Well, thank you for the attempt! For the sake of discussion only,
where did the blind person come to understand color?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
[b]”It’s mockery rather than insults”
Someone who is supposedly understands the English language,
you should know that your claims you are not insulting me, but
mocking me is a farce. It is a distinction without a difference.
You cannot even be honest about this, why should I care what
you say? Nothing that comes from you when you talk to me is
an ...[text shortened]... k someone broke
into your account and was trying to make you out to be a nice
person.
Kelly
[/b]

BOOHOO! I can't understand your position, remember KellyJay; I'm not a born-again Christian so I haven't experienced the Holy Spirit coming into me. I feel so empty.😞

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well, thank you for the attempt! For the sake of discussion only,
where did the blind person come to understand color?
Kelly

Read it; maybe the Holy Spirit will explain it to ya.

They can understand color the same as you or I, since it is nothing more than a certain wavelength of light. Do you think they are too dense to grasp that? The same way you understand x-rays even though you can't see them. Got it yet?

EDIT: That site is run by the University of Illinois Physics Department.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Read it; maybe the Holy Spirit will explain it to ya.

They can understand color the same as you or I, since it is nothing more than a certain wavelength of light. Do you think they are too dense to grasp that? The same way you understand x-rays even though you can't see them. Got it yet?

EDIT: That site is run by the University of Illinois Physics Department.

Yea I got it, your waisting my time.
Kelly

Originally posted by Phlabibit
I half agree... Num One is insulting... but he does want to discuss. You seem to have told him "you will never understand, so I won't bother to tell you".

You've turned Jesus into your private club, and it's insulting.

P-

I've not turned Jesus into anything. The question about the color
red is simply to show you that it requires eyes to see. I can tell
you about God, but you need to experience God for yourself, it is
not anything I can do for you. I can tell you about God, just as
you can tell a blind person about the color red. I'm also not making
this up this doctrine either, I can give you chapter and verse to
support it. It isn't that I want to cut anyone off from God, I do
believe God's love for each one of us is great, but God will not
force Himself on anyone, they must want Him, they must go to
God in the way God has made for our salvation. Our salvation is
not something we can earn, it is a gift that must be accepted.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yea I got it, your waisting my time.
Kelly

Gee, whatever happened to:

Give me the way a blind person can understand the color 'red' and I'll admit I was wrong,

The University of Illinois Physics Department told ya a way a blind person can understand colors; I await that admission of wrongness.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Read it; maybe the Holy Spirit will explain it to ya.

They can understand color the same as you or I, since it is nothing more than a certain wavelength of light. Do you think they are too dense to grasp that? The same way you understand x-rays even though you can't see them. Got it yet?

EDIT: That site is run by the University of Illinois Physics Department.

This responce told me you are not interested in a discussion, only
to insult me. No where in what you quoted did it say they understood
color, you did read what you posted?
Kelly

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
May I ask how the HS has manifested in your life? Forgive me if I'm direct.

No problem in being direct. I like direct. 🙂

I am not sure how to answer the question. In what sense are we talking about "manifested"? Perhaps an example would clarify for me so that I might answer your question in the sense it was intended.

Originally posted by KellyJay
This responce told me you are not interested in a discussion, only
to insult me. No where in what you quoted did it say they understood
color, you did read what you posted?
Kelly

Lies, lies, lies. Shame on ya.

How about:

Nonetheless, we can describe in words all about what colors are.


And:

We do the same sorts of things in experimental science, since there are lots of things we cannot directly sense with our eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin, but can sense with the aid of equipment. Such as infrared radiation, X-rays, lots of colorless, odorless gases, and other things.

And one more time: BOOHOO!

Awaiting that admission of wrongness, particulary since all people were asking is for you to describe in words this "Holy Spirit" thingy and the U of Illinois Physics Department says:

we can describe in words all about what colors are.

Originally posted by Omnislash
No problem in being direct. I like direct. 🙂

I am not sure how to answer the question. In what sense are we talking about "manifested"? Perhaps an example would clarify for me so that I might answer your question in the sense it was intended.

OK. I'd like to hear from you if you have ever been in contact with the HS such that you knew were in contact...you felt the communication...you had the sense of being in contact with this intelligence. Maybe you prayed for guidance on something & the HS inspired you to see. I'd imagine it'd feel different to everyday cogitation.