The Perfect Argument

@ghost-of-a-duke said
"The blame for suffering lies at the feet of man."

This is true, if you are conceding that God does not exist. (Which of course you're not). However, if God does exist, why isn't there time in his 'timetable' to end the suffering of an innocent child? As you say, He could end it instantly. It would be easy for him.

One doesn't have to be a God to realize it is ...[text shortened]... is the dominant reason I (and many others) do not believe in God. That's how far from simple it is.

Not at all, there is no reason what you just said here is true. The thing that you are
doing is simply saying if you were God things would be this way not that, and by
the strength of that argument you reject God.

What you are doing is here is suggesting God cannot allow suffering of innocent
children and why not? God allows us what we want, and more times than not it is
man, who causes children to suffer, from abuse to neglect. We were given life by
God, a planet to manage by God and we rebelled, and we are living in the world
that is driven by our own choices, lust, greed, power, strife, envy, and the list
goes on and on.

God has forewarned us this will not continue, that at some point in time all of this
will be brought to a head and judgment will be rendered, then there will no longer
be no suffering and pain as we inflict upon ourselves now in God's Kingdom. Those
that reject God’s offer of grace and new life will not enter God’s Kingdom, they will
remain as they are and suffer the consequences of their choices as eternally as those
who come to God admitting their sins, repenting, turning their lives over to Christ.

What is gained by it now is everyone sees the fruit of living a life that is not fully
given over to love, we see the consequences of our thoughts, words, and deeds in
this world where it is all allowed to be played out.

@fmf said
This is what I posted: For the sake of discussion, in the scenario you describe [where "there is such a being, and we have His book that tells us how, who, what and why" and we believe this to be so], both Ghost of a Duke and I would probably be religionists in accordance with the revelation and instructions laid out in the "book" you mentioned.

I read that the first time, can you elaborate a little more on your meaning behind this
that I have missed? Repeating a statement that was misunderstood the first time
does not do much to highlight where I got it wrong.

@kellyjay said
I read that the first time, can you elaborate a little more on your meaning behind this
that I have missed? Repeating a statement that was misunderstood the first time
does not do much to highlight where I got it wrong.

It's utterly straightforward.

@kellyjay said
Not at all, there is no reason what you just said here is true. The thing that you are
doing is simply saying if you were God things would be this way not that, and by
the strength of that argument you reject God.

What you are doing is here is suggesting God cannot allow suffering of innocent
children and why not? God allows us what we want, and more times than not it ...[text shortened]... sequences of our thoughts, words, and deeds in
this world where it is all allowed to be played out.

What is someone like Ghost of a Duke to do if he finds the god figure you believe in and worship not credible?

@fmf said
What is someone like Ghost of a Duke to do if he finds the god figure you believe in and worship not credible?

And a follow up question:

Why do you believe it is right that someone like Ghost of a Duke should be punished if he finds the god figure you believe in not credible?

@fmf said
What is someone like Ghost of a Duke to do if he finds the god figure you believe in and worship not credible?

Whatever he wants, I suppose.

There are a lot of things we do and don't do, believe and don't believe. I'm quite
certain that as this universe was designed, we by our actions and words reveal the
truth even if we want to deny it. We can deny truth in the universe and turn
around and talk about fairness where we have been wronged, or see it in others
being wronged and claim injustice. In the end what we know we will be judged on,
condemning another for what we do reveals we knew better, and still acted as we
desired and not as we should have. Our calling out others for the very things we
do will show our faults clearly when all the hidden things are revealed.

John 9:40-41 English Standard Version (ESV)
40 Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, “Are we also blind?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

@fmf said
It's utterly straightforward.

Well than I suggest you read my posts about it and accept them as having been
spot on to the point, as they too were utterly straightforward.

@kellyjay said
Well than I suggest you read my posts about it and accept them as having been
spot on to the point, as they too were utterly straightforward.

No. Your tracts of dogma were non-sequiturs. You just triggered yourself to recite some rote-learned words. You yourself can't even explain what they had to do with what you were 'replying' to.

@kellyjay said
Whatever he wants, I suppose.

Do you believe Ghost of a Duke is "evil" for not having the same religion as you? Or are you just as "evil" as he is ~ only "forgiven"?

@kellyjay said
We can deny truth in the universe and turn
around and talk about fairness where we have been wronged, or see it in others
being wronged and claim injustice.

Countless religions talk about "truth in the universe".

I'm quite certain that as this universe was designed, we by our actions and words reveal the truth even if we want to deny it.

But how is this proof - specifically - of the "truth" of the Jesus religion?

@fmf said
No. Your tracts of dogma were non-sequiturs. You just triggered yourself to recite some rote-learned words. You yourself can't even explain what they had to do with what you were 'replying' to.

Your the one that cannot clarify your own points as I have asked you to a couple
of times now. A common game with you, I'll leave you to it.

@fmf said
Countless religions talk about "truth in the universe".

I'm quite certain that as this universe was designed, we by our actions and words reveal the truth even if we want to deny it.

But how is this proof - specifically - of the "truth" of the Jesus religion?

There is only one God, work it out.

@fmf said
Do you believe Ghost of a Duke is "evil" for not having the same religion as you? Or are you just as "evil" as he is ~ only "forgiven"?

Its been explained to you over and over, you reject it, and just play as if you don't
know the answers to such questions.

@fmf said
No. Your tracts of dogma were non-sequiturs. You just triggered yourself to recite some rote-learned words. You yourself can't even explain what they had to do with what you were 'replying' to.

You spout off as if the only god that is real are the ones between our ears
therefore you miss completely the God who created the whole of reality and holds
it all together by the power of His world. You have such a pitiful view of god that
you despise him, not realizing the grandness of the real God whose very existence
has escaped you so completely because you brain refuses to see Him, because
it would mean you would have to acknowledge your errors and sins.

I asked you to explain what I missed, you refused! I can only image that is because
if you did, you'd see my post was closer to the truth than you care to admit. Since
you have twisted my words elsewhere to make them mean what you want, not
what I said I see this as no different. You ask me to explain myself while your
refuse to do it, even after I said I may have missed your point, just so you can
accuse me about something else. Be a man, own up to your words, and explain
yourself, or slither away accusing me of something your doing.

@fmf said
Do you believe Ghost of a Duke is "evil" for not having the same religion as you? Or are you just as "evil" as he is ~ only "forgiven"?

goad is EVIL...Never mind any religion!!!

-VR