The Perfect Argument

@fmf said
For the sake of discussion, in the scenario you describe [where "there is such a being, and we have His book that tells us how, who, what and why" and we believe this to be so], both Ghost of a Duke and I would probably be religionists in accordance with the revelation and instructions laid out in the "book" you mentioned.

People’s unbelief causes them to doubt His love, truth, kindness, and goodness so
God is accused of all manner of evil. Once a false idea of what they think God is
like gets in their heads, it’s easy to reject that instead of seeking the truth of God.
These imaginary gods who only resides between the ears of people are false, so
no issues avoiding those, it actually should be done.

Since God is good, and people are not, coming to God reveals this! Recognizing
this truth of who God really is comes with a cost so many are unwilling to pay it.
Pride keeps them avoiding Him, they would have to acknowledge their own faults
that become clearer the closer one gets to the real God.

Pride for some is seeking solace in accusing others of their very real faults,
comparing one’s self to others who just like them have their own issues. With the
real God that cannot be done, so when we are shown the reality of God who has
no faults, the closer one gets to God, the more we realize we need to change our
lives, to repent.

People avoid God, they avoid the Holy Spirit, some do that even using the Bible. I
can only imagine that quite a few hide their unrighteousness by doing what they
think are religious works just to sooth their pin pricked souls, attempting to do
enough religious things in one part of their lives, to justify their existence in the
rest of their lives, where they are doing what they want the way they want, doing it
their way.

@kellyjay said
People’s unbelief causes them to doubt His love, truth, kindness, and goodness so
God is accused of all manner of evil. Once a false idea of what they think God is
like gets in their heads, it’s easy to reject that instead of seeking the truth of God.
These imaginary gods who only resides between the ears of people are false, so
no issues avoiding those, it actually shou ...[text shortened]... he
rest of their lives, where they are doing what they want the way they want, doing it
their way.

Is all this stuff you have typed supposed to be a 'reply' to what I posted?

@fmf said
Is all this stuff you have typed supposed to be a 'reply' to what I posted?

When I read what you wrote this is what came to mind, if you don't like it or don't
think it applies ignore it. There are questions and things you say I ignore that have
nothing to do with conversations I think we were having. Its an open board, to talk
about what we will.

@kellyjay said
When I read what you wrote this is what came to mind, if you don't like it or don't
think it applies ignore it. There are questions and things you say I ignore that have
nothing to do with conversations I think we were having. Its an open board, to talk
about what we will.

Did you agree with what I said? Or did you disagree with what I said? The fact that you have typed all that stuff out as a REPLY to me is baffling. I stated something very specific. What does your text have to do with it?

@kellyjay said
When I read what you wrote this is what came to mind, if you don't like it or don't
think it applies ignore it.

In your mind, what does it have to do with what I said?

@fmf said
In your mind, what does it have to do with what I said?

I would say disagree for the reasons I mentioned, the Bible is only a book that points
to God, it is the Holy Word of God, but it can be taken and used for all manner of
evil things. Not accusing you of anything here, I will agree that many people hide
who they really are by wrapping themselves in that book, while with the real God
that cannot be done, only with false gods could that be done. You can have both
pastors and priests doing all manner of evil things in the dark while they use the
Bible to teach, people don't change into good people just because they can
quote scripture, that is a work of God in the heart of man through the Spirit of God.

@kellyjay said
I would say disagree for the reasons I mentioned, the Bible is only a book that points
to God, it is the Holy Word of God, but it can be taken and used for all manner of
evil things. Not accusing you of anything here, I will agree that many people hide
who they really are by wrapping themselves in that book, while with the real God
that cannot be done, only with false go ...[text shortened]... ause they can
quote scripture, that is a work of God in the heart of man through the Spirit of God.

What does this have to do with what I posted? What exactly are you saying you "disagree" with? Do you understand what I posted?

@kellyjay said
You can have both
pastors and priests doing all manner of evil things in the dark while they use the
Bible to teach, people don't change into good people just because they can
quote scripture, that is a work of God in the heart of man through the Spirit of God.

What does this have to do with what I posted?

@fmf said
What does this have to do with what I posted? What exactly are you saying you "disagree" with? Do you understand what I posted?

I know what I got out of it when I read it, it may not be what you meant. What
was the point you were stressing in your post, that I could have misunderstood?

@kellyjay said
I know what I got out of it when I read it, it may not be what you meant. What
was the point you were stressing in your post, that I could have misunderstood?

Just read SecondSon's post.

And then read my reply to it.

What does what you "got out of it" have to do with the words I typed?

@kellyjay said
Pride for some is seeking solace in accusing others of their very real faults,comparing one’s self to others who just like them have their own issues.

Do you think that your tendency to ignore people in this forum who you don’t like because they disagree and challenge you, is a form of pride?

@divegeester said
Do you feel that labelling me a “troll” somehow shores up your arguments in here Joseph?

About as much as your turd comment. 💩

@divegeester said
It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. I think there is plenty of evidence of insincere people holding church leadership offices all over the world in order to secure personal gain or power and use it for nefarious purposes.

Obviously. Everyone knows that even since the beginning.

Do you think you've stumbled onto something new and profound? Makes you think you're wise doesn't it?

Why don't you take your own advice and "Walk along, see a turd, skip around it, whistle a tune, carry on..."

But no. You need to talk about the turd and ignore the Word.

@moonbus said
An interesting suggestion, to host an objective discussion without motivations creeping in. This would be possible if the topic were, for example, the composition of Jupiter's gasses. There is no human factor involved in that. However, wherever beliefs about humanity are involved, there is necessarily a subjective element which cannot be ignored without detriment. Espe ...[text shortened]... ace is not the one which is offered to rationalize that belief system when challenged to justify it.

I agree, and absolutely, there's great emotion in the scriptures. Very subjective. Especially the Psalms.

But a distinction needs to be made in terms of forum etiquette.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Not a 'loaded' question, a 'difficult' question.

Yes, difficult, and the answer is simple, but not simplistic.