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24 Nov 05
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesFair enough, but trinitarians contend that three separate entities are one.
Your conclusion might be correct, but your reasoning is not.
There can exist something that is 100% dog and 100% animal without being two beasts. This is because the properties of animals are a subset of the properties of dogs.
So, an entity could be 100% God and 100% man if the characterizing properties of God or man were a subset of the characterizing properties of the other. This idea, actually, is not altogether unbiblical.
If Jesus is God, then He didn't really die. Only in part.
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by lucifershammer1) Does God have inessential attributes?
The correct statement of the doctrine is that Jesus was fully man and fully God; i.e. he possessed all essential attributes of man and all essential attributes of God.
2) Did Jesus really know all true propositions (i.e., possess omniscience)? His cry on the cross suggests otherwise: "My God, My God -- Why have you abandoned me?" It seems he didn't know the answer to at least one question, falsifying his claim to omniscience, usually assumed to be an essential property of God.
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeI don't mean to be thick, but the classical attributes of divinity differ substantially from the classical attributes of humanity. Or am I missing something?
A child is 100% the child of his mother and 100% the child of his father. In this sense Jesus Christ is 100% human and 100% divine.
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeThe alternative--showmanship--is unpalatable, unless the Islamic version of events is correct.
2) Did Jesus really know all true propositions (i.e., possess omniscience)? His cry on the cross suggests otherwise: "My God, My God -- Why have you abandoned me?"
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeIf you went through all the Scriptures and you still come to this point of view hmm....
A child is 100% the child of his mother and 100% the child of his father. In this sense Jesus Christ is 100% human and 100% divine.
Do you undestand GENESIS 2:24, where GOD speaks of a man and his wife being one? to you believe this statement to be true, in the full understanding of the statement?
24 Nov 05
3 edits
Originally posted by kirksey957The fifth and last Marian dogma, which isn't a dogma yet: "The Lady Of All Nations, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate".
I think it was Jung who postulated that the concept of the trinity was incomplete. The archetype for "wholeness" should have a fourth aspect and be a quaternity. He reasoned that the Catholic church's emphasis on Mary was the natural addition to the trinity as there needed to be an aspect of the feminine that was lacking in traditional "God languag ...[text shortened]... think there is more to his thought than this, but this is the essence of his thinking about it.
http://www.post1.com/home/mary/
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Petition:
The Holy See, Pope John Paul II
Piazza del S Uffizio, 1100193, Vatican City,
Rome, Italy.
Dear Holy Father: Pope John Paul II.
May Our Blessed Lady continue to envelope you, whom we love, with Her Holy Mantle.
From the Spring of 1945, until May, 1959, Our Blessed Lady appeared to Ida Peerdeman, of Amsterdam. During the course of fifty six apparitions, Our Lady asked to be called ‘The Lady Of All Nations. Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate’. This She said would become ‘the last Dogma in Marian History’.
As to the authenticity of the apparitions, Our Blessed Lady refrained from public tangible miracles or signs. Instead, Our Lady said that the authenticity would become clearer, in the messages themselves. Today, we see that many prophecies contained in the messages, given to Ida, have come true.
On April 22, 1984, following an eleven year investigation; Rome embraced with Her approval, the miracles and apparitions that took place in Akita, Japan. The approved miracles took place on a 3ft carved statue of ‘The Lady Of All Nations’.
On May 31, 1996; His Excellency Hendrik Bomers, Bishop of Haarlem, gave his nihil obstat, approving devotion to ‘The Lady Of All Nations.’
In the messages given to Ida Peerdeman, Our Blessed Lady says "Ask the Holy Father for this Dogma." With full loyalty to Rome and in obedience to Our Blessed Mother, I ask that Our Lady, Mary, be crowned as:
‘The Lady Of All Nations’
‘Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate.’
Yours Faithfully.
http://www.post1.com/home/mary/petition1.htm
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterIf you believe that GENESIS 2:24 to be true in the true sense of understanding than you may be almost there.
Alright, here is what I found in the website you referred which will explain everything to me.....
Q: "What about the doctrine of the Trinity, the Holy Trinity?"
our A: "Trinity" is a term that is not found in the Bible but a word used to describe what is apparent about God in the Scriptures. The Bible clearly speaks of God the Father, God ...[text shortened]... tely compelling about this website. It only reiterates all I have heard a thousand times before.
Do you believe that every word of THE WORD OF GOD,to be true? Do you really believe that the answer can be found in THE WORD OF GOD?
I only ask this because you said that a Soul may be saved.
This discussion may not go in a direction that you have gone before, but it will lead to Scriptual understanding of your question. It also may include undersanding of what The War between Good and Evil is all about.
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by blindfaith101I am confused. Do you believe in the Trinity, the Triune God ?
If you went through all the Scriptures and you still come to this point of view hmm....
Do you undestand GENESIS 2:24, where GOD speaks of a man and his wife being one? to you believe this statement to be true, in the full understanding of the statement?
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by blindfaith101Uuuh ..... yes .... but what you are trying to say isn't very clear to me. Could you please elaborate ?
If you went through all the Scriptures and you still come to this point of view hmm....
Do you undestand GENESIS 2:24, where GOD speaks of a man and his wife being one? to you believe this statement to be true, in the full understanding of the statement?
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole1. By essential attributes, I mean attributes that are of the essence of God (not in the sense of necessary attributes).
1) Does God have inessential attributes?
2) Did Jesus really know all true propositions (i.e., possess omniscience)? His cry on the cross suggests otherwise: "My God, My God -- Why have you abandoned me?" It seems he didn't know the answer to at least one question, falsifying his claim to omniscience, usually assumed to be an essential property of God.
2.
a. I think the definition of omniscience you use is untenable because one can construct some silly proposition like "God does not know this proposition" or some such. Omniscience is perhaps better understood as 'maximal knowledge'.
b. His cry on the cross need not be interpreted as a cry of ignorance, but a cry of anguish emanating from his human nature.
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeJesus Christ is 100% (fully) man and 100% (fully) God. Jesus Christ did not only reveal true God to man, he also revealed true man to man. He taught us how to become true human beings fulfilled in relationship with God.
1) Does God have inessential attributes?
2) Did Jesus really know all true propositions (i.e., possess omniscience)? His cry on the cross suggests otherwise: "My God, My God -- Why have you abandoned me?" It seems he didn't know the answer to at least one question, falsifying his claim to omniscience, usually assumed to be an essential property of God.
You should see your remarks in the above perspective.