The Universal Bright Woman

Originally posted by RJHinds

Concerning the letter to Smyrna and the letter to Philadelphia.

The thought is that those learning to ENDURE THROUGH will be granted grace to do so. (Rev. 2:8-11).

But in Rev 3:10 the meaning is that in addition some will receive the REWARD of being kept OUT OF a particular trial - the great tribulation.
Some having learned to endure will not ALWAYS be called to do so.

It is completely logical leaving out no aspect of God's full salvation.

Originally posted by sonship

(Revelation 3:10 NIV)

This means the believers overcome by enduring patiently through to the end of the tribulation of Satan's wrath and will be saved from the hour of trial in the final judgment by Christ.

This particular verse, [b]Rev.3:10 does NOT speak of keeping through but keeping "OUT OF".

The question is ...[text shortened]... DURANCE through trial renders the REWARD of being KEPT OUT OF a particular trial to come.[/b]

Let us look again at the verse:

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

(Revelation 3:10 NIV)

You are correct that "through the tribulation" was not there, however they had to endure something patiently as indicated by the first clause.

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently,"

So what must they endure patiently? From other verses I believe it must be the persecution or tribulation period. I gave the following example of what was told to another church:

Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor's crown.
(Revelation 2:10 NIV)

Other translations replace "persecution" with "tribulation", so I believe this is what they must endure patiently until the time of the Judgment of Christ on all men. The second sentence of Revelation 2:10 explains the meaning of the second clause of Revelation 3:10.

"I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth."

They will be victorious overcomers and not have to take part in that hour of trial of His judgment, because Christ has already decided to give them life for their victory crown, since they have already been tested by the wrath of the Devil and passed.

Originally posted by RJHinds

Revelation 3:10 NIV)

You are correct that "through the tribulation" was not there, however they had to endure something patiently as indicated by the first clause.

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently,"

I TYPOed and think I corrected my TYPO.

Kept OUT OF THE HOUR. Not Kept THROUGH the Hour.

I speak with others now.
Believe as you are convinced.
I've seen beyond those errors.

Stay there!
Just stay there.

I think the Lord could use you. But we've seen through the error of the whole church being raptured EITHER pre or post tribulation. We see selection and see no need to go back from this more accurate understanding.

Originally posted by sonship
Concerning the letter to Smyrna and the letter to Philadelphia.

The thought is that those learning to ENDURE THROUGH will be granted grace to do so. [b](Rev. 2:8-11).

But in Rev 3:10 the meaning is that in addition some will receive the REWARD of being kept OUT OF a particular trial - the great tribulation.
Some having learned to endu ...[text shortened]... be called to do so.

It is completely logical leaving out no aspect of God's full salvation.[/b]

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death.

(Revelation 8:11 NIV)

There is nothing said about them being granted grace to ENDURE THROUGH anything. It says the victorious will be granted life and will not be hurt by the second death (the Lake of Fire and Brimstone prepared for the Satan and his angels).

The trial they will be kept out of is not the great tribulation of the wrath of Satan, but it is the trial of the Judgment of christ and His wrath that comes immediatle after the tribulation.

This is completely logical considering all the verses on the subject.

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

(John 16:33 KJV)

Originally posted by galveston75
Revelation 21:9Amplified Bible (AMP)

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven final plagues (afflictions, calamities) came and spoke to me. He said, Come with me! I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.

This also desribes this woman.....

But is this a real woman? Does Jesus really get married?

Symbolism is being imployed. The revelation was made known by signs (Rev. 1:1)

Originally posted by sonship
BY the way, your thoughts on the 70 weeks of Daniel ARE being examined.
And they leave much to debate about.

Please do not use information you get from Witness Lee to debate the 70 Sevens of Daniel 9.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Please do not use information you get from Witness Lee to debate the 70 Sevens of Daniel 9.

For your information the messages by WItness Lee would be appropriate.

However, I happen not to be consulting them at the moment. You're a fool if you think every Bible teacher always agrees with you on Daniel's 70 weeks.

I happen to be looking at a book written by someone totally not associated with Lee,

Originally posted by sonship
For your information the messages by WItness Lee would be appropriate.

However, I happen not to be consulting them at the moment. You're a fool if you think every Bible teacher always agrees with you on Daniel's 70 weeks.

I happen to be looking at a book written by someone totally not associated with Lee,

I am pretty sure he is wrong, if he does not agree with me on Daniel 9.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am pretty sure he is wrong, if he does not agree with me on Daniel 9.

And what are you should we rely upon?

Originally posted by Kevin Lee Poracan
And what are you should we rely upon?

I expect you to be of noble charater like the Berean Jews and receive my message with great eagerness and examine the Scriptures earnestly without prejudice to see if what I write concerning the prophecy in Daniel 9 is true.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I expect you to be of noble charater like the Berean Jews and receive my message with great eagerness and examine the Scriptures earnestly without prejudice to see if what I write concerning the prophecy in Daniel 9 is true.

That doesn't I really mean.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I expect you to be of noble charater like the Berean Jews and receive my message with great eagerness and examine the Scriptures earnestly without prejudice to see if what I write concerning the prophecy in Daniel 9 is true.

You should do the same to retract your accusation against Witness Lee and local churches, not just to rely on what others said.

To be a Berean is to do nothing more than continually test teachings by the Scriptures. We agree that all Christians should emulate the Bereans but not in the narrow, critical way advocated by some. Rather, we should be today's Bereans in the twofold sense of receiving the word with all eagerness and examining the Scriptures daily. Since the matter of an open, unbiased mind is vital in knowing the truth, it is worthwhile to ponder the case of the Bereans.

According to Acts 17:1-9 Paul and Silas went into a synagogue, and Paul reasoned with those assembled from the Scriptures, “opening and setting before them that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead, and saying, This is the Christ, the Jesus whom I announce to you” (v. 3). A number believed and joined themselves to Paul and Silas. Moved with envy, the unbelieving religionists stirred up opposition and “set the city in an uproar” (v. 5). Immediately, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. Upon their arrival, the two apostles again entered into a synagogue of the Jews. “Now these people were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so” (v. 11). The Greek word rendered noble denotes a quality of mind and heart. They were more noble in the twofold sense of receiving the word with eagerness and examining the Scriptures. The Bereans, being neither biased nor bigoted, had an open mind and a receptive heart. Although the word proclaimed by Paul and Silas was something utterly new, the Bereans were willing to give it a fair hearing and honest consideration. They gave Paul a sincere and interested hearing. Their first thought was not to conform to accept- ed beliefs but to the written Word of God. They were very different from religious people who would rather be orthodox than scriptural. In fact, the Bereans did not simply receive the word—they received it with eagerness and willingness and with a proper attitude and disposition. What a tremendous contrast to the religionists in Thessalonica! Such openness of mind and receptivity need to be balanced, however, by the second aspect of Berean nobility: They were noted for “examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.”

First, the Bereans themselves searched the Scriptures. Instead of relying on others to do the research for them, they exercised their right of personal judgment by directly examining the written Word of God, thereby avoiding two extremes of undiscerningly believing the word of the apostles and of uncritically accepting the conclusions of others (such as the Thessalonian religionists). Assuming their own responsibility for arriving at the knowledge of the truth, they themselves examined the Scriptures.

The fact that the Bereans examined the Scriptures indicates that the object of their research was the Word of God, not the opinions of the rabbis or the traditions of the religionists. These Bereans examined the Scriptures; they pored over them and studied them thoroughly and in detail. The Greek word rendered examined is anakrino, which means to investigate, to make inquiry. This word is used as a legal term with the meaning of conducting an examination or investigating (Luke 23:14; Acts 12:19). The word denotes an official or judicial inquisition and suggests that the Bereans were unbiased judges. Furthermore, the Bereans searched the Scriptures daily. This suggests that they studied the Word not only at set times in the synagogue but continually in their daily life. They were not characterized by rash acceptance or rash rejection; on the contrary, daily they studied the Word, thoroughly and comprehensively, before finally deciding to believe in Christ as preached by Paul and Silas. They were willing to spend whatever time was required to consider what they heard honestly and fairly in the light of the Scriptures. This brings us to a crucial point: The Bereans examined the Scriptures “to see whether these things were so.” The goal, the objective, of their daily examination of the Scriptures was to find out whether or not the word taught by the apostles was true according to the Word of God. In studying the Scriptures, they had a pure motive, for their aim was to ascertain the truth of God's Word and cleave to it. It is significant that Acts 17:11 does not say that the Bereans searched the Scriptures in order to disprove Paul or to find ground to accuse him of heresy. They turned to the Word as the means of determining the truth, not as a source of ammunition to use in defending themselves against a teaching that threatened the religious status quo. Every student of the Bible and every seeker of the divine truth should appreciate the balance of these Bereans. On the one hand, their mind was open to receive the word spoken by the apostles; on the other hand, they examined the Scriptures. We ask that our readers be like the Bereans, neither rashly accepting nor rashly rejecting our testimony regarding deification. We appeal for an open mind, for Berean nobility.

Originally posted by Kevin Lee Poracan
You should do the same to retract your accusation against Witness Lee and local churches, not just to rely on what others said.

To be a Berean is to do nothing more than continually test teachings by the Scriptures. We agree that all Christians should emulate the Bereans but not in the narrow, critical way advocated by some. Rather, we should b ...[text shortened]... rejecting our testimony regarding deification. We appeal for an open mind, for Berean nobility.

Could it be that Witness Lee might be wrong on some parts of scripture?

I have examined some of Witness Lee's claims concerning scripture and discovered that he disagrees with the teachings of the early church to the point of heresay. He seems to twist scripture away from the accepted meaning by the early church to heretical interpretations. There just so happens to be others today in the church that agree with me. So it is not my opinion alone.

I just ask you to try to ignore the teachings of Witness Lee and others by examining my interpretation of the prophecy of Daniel 9 with scripture to see if what I say is true and makes sense.