The Universal Bright Woman

Originally posted by sonship
Folks the Woman bringing forth the man-child also means [b]RESURRECTION

Christ was said to be brought forth as a birth in His resurrection. (Acts 13:33-34).[/b]

Originally posted by RJHinds
It specifically states that they came out of the great tribulation and we know that the catching up or rapture comes after the tribulation, not before.

It specifically states that they came out of the great tribulation and we know that the catching up or rapture comes after the tribulation, not before.

Originally posted by sonship

It specifically states that they came out of the great tribulation and we know that the catching up or rapture comes after the tribulation, not before.

We are just repeating and repeating and repeating to one another.

I explained to you the inserted scene of the unnumbered crowd. I need someone NEW to re-explain it.

This [b]"gr ...[text shortened]... ometimes up to their own vigilance.

IE. [b]Firstfruits and Harvest in chapter 14.[/b]

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

"I John, your brother and fellow partaker in the TRIBULATION and kingdom and endurance in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." (Rev. 1:9)

Here John does not refer to the same great tribulation period spoken of in Matthew. But it is tribulation.

The unnumbered multitude shown raptured in the inserted vision of chapter 7 between the Sixth and Seventh Seal, are those who have come out of this kind of great tribulation which has occurred for God's people since man left the garden of Eden.

" ... These are those who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (See Rev. 7:14)

You need to stop reading that Witness Lee cult material.

Abiding in the Lord to Enjoy His Life
Abraham—Called by God
Administration of the Church and the Ministry of the Word, The
Advance of the Lord's Recovery Today, The
All Ages for the Lord's Testimony
All-Inclusive Christ, The
All-inclusive Indwelling Spirit, The
All-Inclusive Spirit of Christ, The
All-Inclusiveness and Unlimitedness of Christ, The
Apostles' Teaching and the New Testament Leadership, The
Apostles' Teaching, The
Application of the Interpretation of the New Jerusalem to the Seeking Believers, The
Assurance, Security and Joy of Salvation
Autobiography of a Person in the Spirit, An
Baptism in the Holy Spirit, The
Basic Lessons on Life
Basic Lessons on Service
Basic Principles Concerning the Eldership
Basic Principles for the Practice of the Church Life
Basic Principles for the Practice of the God-Ordained Way, The
Basic Principles for the Service in the Church Life
Basic Principles of the Experience of Life
Basic Revelation in the Holy Scriptures, The
Basic Training
Basis for the Building Work of God, The
Bearing Remaining Fruit, Vol. 1
Bearing Remaining Fruit, Vol. 2
Being Apt to Teach and Holding the Mystery of the Faith
Being Delivered from Religious Rituals and Walking according to the Spirit
Being Desperate and Living Uniquely for the Gospel
Being Renewed Day by Day
Being Up-to-date for the Rebuilding of the Temple
Believer's Experience of Transformation, The
Bible, The
Blessed Human Life, A
Blueprint and the Ground for the Building Up of the Church, The
Body of Christ, The
Bridge and Channel of God, The
Brief Definition of the Kingdom of the Heavens, A
Brief Presentation of the Lord's Recovery, A
Builder of the Pillars, The

Originally posted by sonship
[b]"I John, your brother and fellow partaker in the TRIBULATION and kingdom and endurance in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." (Rev. 1:9)

Here John does not refer to the same great tribulation period spoken of in Matthew. But it is tribulation.

The unnumbered multitude shown raptured i ...[text shortened]... they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (See Rev. 7:14) [/b][/b]

Originally posted by sonship

You need to stop reading that Witness Lee cult material.

You mean books like these? Just going alphabetically -

[quote]

Abiding in the Lord to Enjoy His Life
Abraham—Called by God
Administration of the Church and the Ministry of the Word, The
Advance of the Lord's Recovery Today, The
All Ages for the Lord's Testimony
All ...[text shortened]... k I will continue to read these messages.
I don't see you coming up with anything as edifying.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't see what point you are trying to make.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't know anything about those books. However, if they get you as screwed up as you seem to be on the Great Tribulation and the rapture, they perhaps you should burn them.

I don't know anything about those books.

Witness Lee speaks of rumors and slanders that followed him all the time God blessed his ministry.

He was expounding on Jacob's blessing on his son Joseph, who branches over every limiting wall.

B. Branching over the Wall

These branches are branching out over the wall (49:22), that is, they are spreading Christ over all restrictions, magnifying Him in all circumstances (Phil. 1:20). Genesis 49:22 says that Joseph's branches run over the wall. The wall signifies restriction. Since the day of Pentecost, wall after wall has been erected to restrict the spreading of the branches. One day Peter was even put into prison (Acts 12:3-4). But not even that stronghold could restrict the branching out. Year after year, decade after decade, and century after century, walls have been raised up by the opposers and by the enemy to restrict the church's fruitfulness. But the branches have run over the wall every time.

I can testify of this by what I have seen and experienced during the past fifty years. During these years I have seen the fruitfulness of the branches. Brother Nee, raised up by the Lord in China, was certainly a bough of a fruitful tree, a branch of the fruitful Christ. When I was with him, I became very clear that nothing could restrict his testimony. Brother Nee was burdened to bear a testimony of Jesus that was opposed to organized Christianity. As a result, even many Christians put up walls to restrict him, and they spread rumors about him. Let me give you an illustration of the evil rumors. After he was saved, Brother Nee received great help from a sister named Margaret E. Barber. Miss Barber had a co-worker named Miss Gross. Both Miss Barber and Miss Gross were missionaries who had come from Britain to China. However, by the time Brother Nee was saved, they had left their missions and were in China living by faith in God. Because Brother Nee received so much help from Miss Barber, Miss Gross also came to know him. Since Brother Nee was under the helping hand of Miss Barber, he was simultaneously also under the help of Miss Gross. In 1929 Miss Barber went to be with the Lord, and Miss Gross remained and moved to Shanghai. One day Miss Gross heard the report that a woman was living with Brother Nee, and she came to him to check with him about this. Brother Nee was still single, and, like Miss Barber, Miss Gross, as an elderly sister, loved him and was very concerned about him. Miss Gross said, "I have heard that a woman is staying with you. Is this true?" When Brother Nee answered, "Yes," Miss Gross rebuked him, asking how he, a single young man, could have a woman staying with him. Brother Nee related this incident to me himself to help me understand something about self-vindication. He told me that he was happy to be rebuked. He also told me that the woman staying with him was his mother. He said this, not to vindicate himself, but to render some help to me. When I asked Brother Nee why he did not tell Miss Gross about this, he replied, "She didn't ask me who the woman was. She only asked whether or not a woman was staying with me. When I told her that a woman was living with me, she rebuked me. I didn't say anything." This is one illustration of the rumors spread about Brother Nee.

Another illustration: Immediately after his wedding, a great turmoil was stirred up in Shanghai. This was another wall raised up by the enemy. Brother Nee showed me a newspaper, the leading newspaper in Shanghai and perhaps in all of China. In huge Chinese characters there was a negative article regarding his marriage. Brother Nee said to me, "Witness, in my whole life I never heard about such a thing happening after a wedding."

Today many rumors are being circulated about us, but as yet none of them are as evil as the rumors spread about Brother Nee. The fact that a rumor was circulated concerning a woman staying with Brother Nee indicates that the enemy was constantly trying to raise up walls to restrict his fruitfulness. But Brother Nee's fruitfulness has run over the wall. Today his fruit can be found throughout the earth. No one can wall it in. Even if some raise up a wall one hundred forty-four cubits high, the branches will still run over it.

As the years went by, I saw all the things that happened to Brother Nee. I thank the Lord that I was allowed to see those things and experience them with him. Thus, when I hear the rumors spread about me, I can laugh and say, "I am prepared for this. In the past I saw a wall one thousand feet high. But your wall is a mere fifteen feet." I would like to tell all the opposers throughout the United States, "I don't think you can build a wall one thousand feet high. Probably the highest wall you can build is five hundred feet. However, I have already experienced branching over a wall one thousand feet high." The Lord knows that I am not boasting. At least two elderly brothers from China among us here can testify that in the past I suffered together with Brother Nee. Having rumors spread about us is nothing new. If possible, we should tell the opposers they are wasting their time, for they cannot suppress this testimony. The higher the walls are built to restrict us, the faster the branches will spread over them.

Cont. From the Life Study of Genesis by Witness Lee
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

Joseph branching over all the walls.

In Acts 5 Gamaliel spoke a good word: "Stay away from these men and leave them alone; for if this counsel or this work is of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them, lest perhaps you even be found fighters against God" (vv. 38-39). If this is not the Lord's recovery, it should be overthrown. If it is not the recovery, let it sink to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. But if it is the Lord's recovery, the opposers should be careful, for they will suffer shame. They will never be able to defeat this testimony. The more they try to hold it down, the higher it will rise up. Church history testifies of this.

Let me share a little of my personal experience. After I was saved, by the mercy of the Lord I became a seeking Christian, one who sought the Lord. The Christians in my home town loved me. One day, however, I was caught by the Lord for His recovery, and a church was raised up in my home town. According to the outsiders, I was the one doing the preaching and teaching there. Before the church was raised up, some of the Christians invited me to speak at their meetings. They even provided transportation to and from the meeting. In China, that was considered an expression of love and respect. But after the church was raised up there, those very ones who invited me to the meetings and even provided transportation for me completely ignored me when they saw me on the street. Then rumors were spread about me. Some of those rumors said that I was teaching heresy. I have been condemned as heretical from the time I first came into the church life. This is nothing new to me.

Fifty years ago, my home town was the most famous city in North China for Bible knowledge. Hearing the rumors that my teaching was heretical, certain young men, sons of fundamental Christian preachers, came to the meetings to find out for themselves what was going on. Prior to this, instead of attending services of their fathers' denominations, they went to operas, theaters, and gambling places. When these young men were engaging in such sinful activities, their parents were not very concerned. However, when some of them were attracted to the church life and caught by it, the pastors began to warn them not to attend the meetings. One of these young men said to a certain pastor, "When I was going to the gambling places and to the theaters, you did not come to warn me about what I was doing. But now that I am going to a place where I can listen to the Word of God and where I am receiving much help in spiritual life, you come to warn me not to go there. Do not come to me again. I have been helped by attending these meetings, and I intend to keep on receiving this help." This shows that the branches were running over the wall.

Throughout the years, the opposers have followed me from my home town to many other places, including Taiwan. A certain preacher purposely went to Taiwan from my home town to try to destroy my ministry. When I was bothered by the opposition, the Lord said, "Look at Paul, and read the book of Acts again. Wherever the apostles went, the opposing Jews followed and caused trouble."

Recently, one of the brothers received a letter from Australia, written by a traveling preacher, filled with negative statements about me. In the whole letter there was nothing positive concerning me. However, several years ago the same man who wrote this letter had written another letter in which he praised me very highly. In the letter written several years ago, this traveling preacher said, "To me, Witness Lee has always been a great man of God in his personal life, and a most fruitful servant of God in his ministry. I'm sure I cannot lace his shoes. I would be a happy man if I thought the Lord would give me half the reward, or even one tenth, He has for His eminent servant." But recently the same person has written a letter filled with slanderous lies about me. It is difficult to believe that both were written by the same person. This second letter was written because the fruitful branch has spread to Sydney. Some, seeing the branching out in Australia, were stirred up and wondered what they could do about it. Hence, this letter was written in an attempt to restrict the branching out of the Lord's recovery in Australia. When I consider things such as this in the light of 49:22, I am happy, for the branches are still running over the wall. What is happening today exactly corresponds to what is written in this verse. The opposers are wasting their time. The more walls they raise up, the more branching out there will be.

How can a traveling preacher, one who preaches the gospel in the name of the Lord Jesus and teaches the Bible, speak lies, even slander a brother? This is the poor situation of today's Christianity. There is no conscience and no moral standard. As long as some can frustrate the Lord's recovery, they are happy. But no wall can frustrate the spread of the branches. In fact, the opposition actually helps the Lord's spreading. This is the experience of Joseph.

In 1958 I was invited to England. From that time onward, some have tried to restrict the Lord's recovery from spreading to Europe. But when the Lord's Recovery began to spread there, they were not able to do anything. The branches are spreading over the wall in Germany, Switzerland, and even in Denmark and Sweden. No one can restrict the spreading of Joseph. If we are today's Joseph, who can restrict us?

Rumors about us have also been spread in Central America and in South America. But praise the Lord that His recovery in Brazil is spreading like wild fire! None of the "firemen" know what to do about it. Before this wild fire began to spread, the opposers in Christianity circulated rumors concerning me and the churches. I ask you to wait for another period of time and see what will happen. Everything depends on whether or not we are today's Joseph. If we are, no one and nothing will be able to restrict the spreading of the branches over the wall.

Originally posted by sonship
Why am I not surprised that you don't?

The Rapture of the saints before the one thousand two hundred and sixty days includes their resurrection too.

So the Woman [b]"brought forth" includes resurrection.[/b]

Originally posted by sonship
Witness Lee speaks of rumors and slanders that followed him all the time God blessed his ministry.

He was expounding on Jacob's blessing on his son Joseph, who branches over every limiting wall.

B. Branching over the Wall

These branches are branching out over the wall (49:22), that is, they are spreading Christ over all restrictions, m ...[text shortened]... er the walls are built to restrict us, the faster the branches will spread over them.

4. Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders versus loyalty and connecting people to Jesus: Cults seek to connect their members to the cult leader and require loyalty to him instead of to Jesus. Loyalty is defined as not questioning the leader. It is very dangerous, when the leader cannot be questioned.

5. Crossing biblical boundaries of behavior versus walking in purity and financial integrity: Cults cross biblical boundaries of behavior especially in immorality and finances. False teachers can be detected by their covetousness and immorality (2 Peter 2:3-18).

6. Separation from the church versus a culture of honor towards the church: Cults separate from the wider church and operate with an elite spirit, believing that they alone have a special status with God. They have a polarized mentality of “us versus them.” They criticize the larger body of Christ and often claim to be the only ones truly saved. They view all other ministry and denominations as being in error.

7. Emphasizing special revelations that contradict Scripture versus loyalty to Scripture: Cults emphasize the special revelations of their leader that contradict the Scripture.

Originally posted by RJHinds

1. Oppose critical thinking versus demanding that people think for themselves: Cult members must accept what the cult leader believes without ever challenging their doctrines. They do not want their members to think critically for themselves.

Originally posted by RJHinds
[quote] 4. [b]Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders versus loyalty and connecting people to Jesus: Cults seek to connect their members to the cult leader and require loyalty to him instead of to Jesus. Loyalty is defined as not questioning the leader. It is very dangerous, when the leader cannot be questioned.

5. Crossing biblical boundari ...[text shortened]... arismamag.com/blogs/the-plumb-line/15953-would-you-recognize-a-christian-cult-if-you-were-in-one