The Way of Righteousness.

Originally posted by sonship
Get off his back Rajk999. You're hardly a beacon of cooperative discourse many times.

" Blah, Blah, Blah ", mocking, name calling, insulting, etc.

All that's behind us now ?
New and improved now are you ?

If I posted a few more remarks really dealing with your OP your true colors would come out, I expect - rude, crude, "blah, blah, blah ... "

A pristine of example of adult discourse around the Scriptures ? - hardly.

You say nothing of substance but you welcome to say it anyway.

Your comments on this topic are well known and anyone not similarly indoctrinated like you in false teachings, will see through them.

All the dozen or so statements about Christians being REQUIRED TO LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY cannot be refuted on the grounds of wrong context.

You live in a fools paradise.

Originally posted by Rajk999
If you dont want to discuss the topic and come out and speak plainly and just say that. Pussyfootting around is wasting peoples time.

I think Twhiteheads comment about you .."Your rudeness is noted", is appropriate. Relying with "I did not mean to sound that way", is an insult to the intelligence of people around here. This is chesswebsite and you w ...[text shortened]... e intelligence and reasoning ability compared to your village or workplace.

Good luck to you.

I believe I commented on the OP and answered your questions, but I disagree with some aspects of it and and stated why. You apply scriptures to Christians in this forum as if your word is the final word that it can't be argued with. I don't care too much for that kind of attitude.

At least I understand you better, Good day.

Originally posted by Rajk999

Two terrible warnings by Peter and Paul [and there are several more]. But yet you will hear Christians claim:
- they are eternally saved
- non Christians will be tormented forever
- Christians cannot live without committing sin
- righteousness is not necessary.

So stern warnings are VERSES eternal life ?
So the two are incompatible ?

Stern warnings to those saved forever is not illogical. It may be underestimated by too many. But that is not the fault of the Bible.

- they are eternally saved

I know that I am.
For God's FAITHFULNESS I can be thankful.

- non Christians will be tormented forever

The same Bible says to me -

" And if anyone's name was not found in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)

If you don't like that then you take a ink erase and pen and make it say whatever it is your would like it to say instead.

But while you are on the subject of stern warnings, notice that there is also a stern warning against literally ANYONE who would decide willy-nilly, to either add or take away from the words of the book of the prophecy.

" I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this scroll.

And if anyone takes away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and out of the holy city, which are written in this scroll." (Rev. 22:18,19)

Now if you have a particular interpretation that is one matter. But Revelation 20:15 says what revelation 20:15 says. Do you have some interpretation which effectively makes it not say what it says ? Do you have some exegesis which makes it mean the opposite of what it appears to plainly say ?

Oh, by the way. I have no doubt that God is able to discipline even an eternally saved person with some aspect of the warnings of Revelation 22:18,19 and still be true to their eternal salvation.

- Christians cannot live without committing sin

You know, there are things which God hates more than sin - DEATH - the last enemy. That would include spiritual death too.

Look, all I have to know is that the blood of Jesus Christ God's Son cleanses us from every sin. We are told to confess. I have learned to confess SOON and not procrastinate.

I am also told that if I as a Christian say, I have no sin, the truth is not in me and I am a self deceived.

"If we say that we do not have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8 )

Now if you take that passage and accuse me of trying to make a personal license to be a sinning Christian, that is your twisting my motive in your mind. Don't warp my intention.

The next passage gives the Christian provision for the failures he or she is bound to encounter (not LOOK for) some time in their spiritual development.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (vs. 9,10)

Provision is made to maintain fellowship. And God is faithful and RIGHTEOUS to cause the blood of Jesus to set out conscience fully at peace.

What? You never read ?

" And they overcame him [the accuser] because of the blood of the Lamb ..." (Rev. 12:11)

Now I am going to get a little personal with you again. If YOU do not know how to overcome accusation through the blood of Jesus, I don't TRUST your so called obedience of spiritual success you think you have.

If you don't know the power of the blood of Christ to restore peace with God and maintain the rich fellowship in the Holy Spirit, I flat out don't trust your "righteousness". It is probably religious self righteousness. At best it is some self improvement system.

If you think you have graduated from bringing your sins DAILY under the blood of Jesus, I don't trust your Christian goodness.

- righteousness is not necessary.

You're not talking to me.
You're not talking to any of the thousands of Christian brothers and sisters that I have fellowshipped with over the last 40 plus years.

I see no need to defend a position that I do not hold.
And I still believe Once Sealed (or saved) Always SEALED.

" ... you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of the promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance unto the redemption of the acquired possession, the the praise of His glory." (Eph. 13b,14)

Originally posted by Rajk999

Your comments on this topic are well known and anyone not similarly indoctrinated like you in false teachings, will see through them.

All the dozen or so statements about Christians being REQUIRED TO LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY cannot be refuted on the grounds of wrong context.

You are one BRAIN WASHED little fella.

Please quote a single post by me over the last eight YEARS saying Christians are not required to live righteously.

JUST ONE !!!

Required to live righteousness is not VERSES the gift of eternal life.
The gift of eternal redemption and eternal life is not mutually exclusive to Kingdom living.

And for the one "destroyed" in First Corinthians 3[/b] for marring the temple of God - the church, is the one who was SAVED YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE in verse 15

The very Christian brother in the letter is an example of one in such danger .

"To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." (1 Cor. 5:5)

This is a Christian in danger of being destroyed for destroying the church - the temple of God.

Fortunately, he repented as we see in the Second Corinthian letter.
The phrase "saved yet so as through fire" has a wide enough scope to it to mean practically any degree of discipline God may need to place one of His children through to mature them.

The phrase "suffer loss" is wide enough in its application to include practically any degree of dispensational discipline God may want to discipline one eternally saved with.

"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15)

Originally posted by sonship

Two terrible warnings by Peter and Paul [and there are several more]. But yet you will hear Christians claim:
- they are eternally saved
- non Christians will be tormented forever
- Christians cannot live without committing sin
- righteousness is not necessary.

So stern warnings are VERSES eternal life ?
So the two are incompat ...[text shortened]... redemption of the acquired possession, the the praise of His glory." (Eph. 13b,14) [/quote][/b]

I have no knowledge of you and the thousands that you know who you believe are given eternal life, neither do I care to know. You have no knowledge of me personally and how I live, and you dont care about that Im sure. The post has nothing to do with people, or you or me.

It has to do with several passages from Christ and the Aposltes which warn Christian saints about continuing a life of sin after they have come a knowledge of the truth and tasted the of the good things go come. You have not addressed that, except to claim that they are saved, Jesus will forgive them and they have eternal life. If you know of many thousands that have eternal life and who are in Gods Kingdom, that alone muddies any credibility that you think you have.

Jesus is the righteous judge that will welcome people into His Kingdom... not you.

Originally posted by sonship

Your comments on this topic are well known and anyone not similarly indoctrinated like you in false teachings, will see through them.

All the dozen or so statements about Christians being REQUIRED TO LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY cannot be refuted on the grounds of wrong context.

You are one BRAIN WASHED little fella.

Please quote a singl ...[text shortened]... suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15) [/quote][/b]

So you want to equate these two:

1. I Cor 3:15 - .. Him shall God destroy..
2. 1 Cor 5 : 5 - .. deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh ...

that they mean the same thing. Are you right in your head?

God destroying an evil person is a permanent destruction and has nothing to do with Satans flesh destruction.

You peddle your falsity to the innocent and gullible.

Originally posted by Rajk999

I have no knowledge of you and the thousands that you know who you believe are given eternal life, neither do I care to know. You have no knowledge of me personally and how I live, and you dont care about that Im sure. The post has nothing to do with people, or you or me.

I am sorry to inform you. But based on your "testimony" here in this forum I DO have some knowledge of you personally.

And you of me also.

A witness of Jesus Christ is a witness.
You may want to restrict being a "witness" to purely doctrinal issues. But you impart what you ARE to people along with what you think you know.

Don't day we know nothing about each other. We know something, both of us.

Huh, You never read ? "We are a FRAGANCE of Christ to God, in those who are being saved and in those who are perishing ..." . You never read that in Second Corinthians ? Go find it like an astute student of the Bible.

A minister of the new covenant carries FRAGRANCE and SMELL. A spiritual aroma is put off by those who would be ministers of the new covenant.

You may want to be like a farmer shoveling off hay off the back of a truck.
I mean shoveling off doctrines off the back of a religious pickup truck.
But you carry a spiritual smell that others spirits of men can "smell".

Jesus is the righteous judge that will welcome people into His Kingdom... not you.

Excuse me. I never claimed to be the official welcomer into the kingdom of God in place of the King.

And I am awaiting you to produce ONE quotation of a post I have written teaching that righteous living was not required of the Lord.

Back up you accusation of retract your accusation as misspeaking.
Where did I teach that Righteousness was not required in the Chistian life ?

ONE ... POST .... ONE CLEAR QUOTATION.

Or retract your accusation. I have started a number of threads on practical Christian living. I started one that I left off after many posts called "The Constitution of the Kingdom"

Did that thread encourage Christian disciples NOT to give heed to living righteously ?
A firm foundation in the security of eternal redemption is needed for the righteous living of Christ, in oneness with Christ - living out Christ and allowing Christ to live His life again from within the believer.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Fire is a good servant but a bad master. Same with context. "Context is everything " is a piece of cliched garbage that people use in religion to avoid the truth of what is being said by Christ and the Apostles. Context has to be considered Yes, but the meaning of what is being said cannot be put aside to please context. Context cannot override truth. Cont ...[text shortened]... ist died for all their sins .. a statement fabricated by the church and not stated in the Bible.

Why would God destroy anyone when as you put it?
"All of mankind is saved by the blood of Christ. ALL ... ALL from Adam to the end of time."

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have no knowledge of you and the thousands that you know who you believe are given eternal life, neither do I care to know. You have no knowledge of me personally and how I live, and you dont care about that Im sure. The post has nothing to do with people, or you or me.

It has to do with several passages from Christ and the Aposltes which warn Christ ...[text shortened]... you have.

Jesus is the righteous judge that will welcome people into His Kingdom... not you.

What does it matter that anyone sins when as you put it?
"All of mankind is saved by the blood of Christ. ALL ... ALL from Adam to the end of time."

Originally posted by Rajk999

So you want to equate these two:

1. I Cor 3:15 - .. Him shall God destroy..
2. 1 Cor 5 : 5 - .. deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh ...

that they mean the same thing. Are you right in your head?

God destroying an evil person is a permanent destruction and has nothing to do with Satans flesh destruction.

You peddle your falsity to the innocent and gullible.

The SCOPE of one includes the other. I would not say that they are exactly equal. I would say that the relationship is such that the sinning brother in Corinth was dealt with in THAT particular way.

It is not the only way that a disciple could be disciplined. First Corinthians 3:15 has a scope such that it includes among other methods 1 Cor. 5:5.

The fact of the matter is that either WILLINGLY or eventually by a change of circumstances every Christian will have the OLD manner of life destroyed, nullified, crucified, put off, discarded.

Now it can come with cooperation and enjoying Christ as grace.
Or it can come because the clock to the kingdom reward runs out and discipline can no longer be procrastinated.

To cooperate with grace for this is to overcome.
To fail to cooperate with this grace is to be defeated.

The former will receive a reward when the millenium starts.
The latter will suffer loss but will be saved, yet so as through fire, unto eternal life.

Sorry.

Originally posted by sonship

I have no knowledge of you and the thousands that you know who you believe are given eternal life, neither do I care to know. You have no knowledge of me personally and how I live, and you dont care about that Im sure. The post has nothing to do with people, or you or me.

I am sorry to inform you. But based on your "testimony" here in th ...[text shortened]... Christ - living out Christ and allowing Christ to live His life again from within the believer.

You do not know me or anyone else for that matter to determine whether or not Christ will accept me/ them into the Kingdom of God. Only Jesus Christ can do that:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. (Hebrews 4:12-14 KJV)

You and your thousands of 'frends' will wait for the return of Christ.

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] So you want to equate these two:

1. I Cor 3:15 - .. Him shall God destroy..
2. 1 Cor 5 : 5 - .. deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh ...

that they mean the same thing. Are you right in your head?

God destroying an evil person is a permanent destruction and has nothing to do with Satans flesh destruction.

Y ...[text shortened]... latter will suffer loss but will be saved, yet so as through fire, unto eternal life.

Sorry.

Changing the Bible again to suit Mr Witness Lee?

Paul says 3 classes of Christian saints:
1. does good works and is rewarded
2. does nothing good but still gets eternal life
3. does evil and is destroyed.

Matches perfectly what Jesus Christ and Peter says as well.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You do not know me or anyone else for that matter to determine whether or not Christ will accept me/ them into the Kingdom of God. Only Jesus Christ can do that:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of ...[text shortened]... brews 4:12-14 KJV)

You and your thousands of 'frends' will wait for the return of Christ.

We don't know that Christ will accept you? How can that be true when?
"All of mankind is saved by the blood of Christ. ALL ... ALL from Adam to the end of time."

Originally posted by Rajk999
Your analysis is incorrect. In the time of Paul, there were two kinds of people in the world - Jews and Gentiles. It was not Jews, Gentiles and Pagans. Also in the time of Paul there were two 'laws', the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ. Paul preached the Law of Christ to the Gentiles and those who were converted became Gentile Christians.

Jews who co ...[text shortened]... ul is referring to Christian Gentiles and for Paul to infer that Christian Gentiles have no law.

Pagans are a subset of gentiles. I don't think most Gentiles would agree that there were only two groups. Relevant to this discussion though there are three. Jews, Gentile Christians, and Pagan Christians. Paul said Gentile, he did not specify Pagan, so there is no reason to believe he was talking about them. Mosaic law did not apply to non-Jews and so Gentile Christians did not have the law. Given the repetition of the words "circumcised" and "uncircumcised" the context is clear, Jewish Christians in Rome were claiming that Gentiles who hadn't been converted weren't real Christians and Paul was saying they were.

I disagree that Christianity has separate laws from Judaism. There are the Ten Commandments, which Christians really ought to obey and in any case three of them (don't kill, don't steal, don't commit adultery) were universal to all law codes until adultery ceased to be a criminal offence, there is the requirement not to be judgemental, but other than that there is little actual law. So, since there is hardly any law applicable to Gentile Christians I think it makes sense for Paul to say that Gentile Christians should follow the law in their hearts.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Pagans are a subset of gentiles. I don't think most Gentiles would agree that there were only two groups. Relevant to this discussion though there are three. Jews, Gentile Christians, and Pagan Christians. Paul said Gentile, he did not specify Pagan, so there is no reason to believe he was talking about them. Mosaic law did not apply to non-Jews and ...[text shortened]... nk it makes sense for Paul to say that Gentile Christians should follow the law in their hearts.

The ten commandments do not apply Christians. The flaw in your entire argument is that Christians fall under the 'no law' group spoken of by Paul, and are just required to follow their hearts. Paul and the Apostles preached the Gospel of Christ, the commandments of Christ and this is the law of Christ. It certainly not the Law of Moses.

All over the writings of the Apostles they speak at length of a new law, a new covenant, new testament brought on by Christ, and they also refer to the falling away of the old covenant which was brought in by Moses. You cannot miss it.