23 Apr 19
@sonship saidBeing facile won't get you anywhere. If you have some sort of set of gormless questions you use to prey on weakminded or vulnerable people, go for it. What are they?
Do you think anywhere in the world someone is doing something that they should not be doing ?
23 Apr 19
@sonship saidOnce again, because you sidestepped it: Can pretty much anything that a Christian was instructed to actually do, by the Bible in a walk-the-Christian-walk way, be dismissed or sidestepped selectively by characterizing it as "legality"?
@FMF
Can pretty much anything that a Christian was instructed to actually do, by the Bible in a walk-the-Christian-walk way, be dismissed or sidestepped selectively by characterizing it as "legality"?
In your system I will never be examined by Christ as to how I walked. In my belief I will.
The prospect of being examined by my Lord is ...[text shortened]... and over us.
Where does that standard of what ought be done outside and above us come from ?
23 Apr 19
@sonship saidI agree with you that some practices are more important than others - crucially important, actually. Such as loving one another, showing compassion, being forgiving, etc. Laws of the heart.
@CalJust
If we find some practice recorded in the New Testament that is not legally applied today by churches, to that degree they have not gone back to early original desire of
While I notice some leeway with some aspects of the early Christians' way I don't see leeway in the other. I would think this reflects some degrees of importance.
Others are definitely dependent on the culture of the times, the political and societal issues, and hence cannot be applied to the 21st century.
On these two principles I think we agree.
Where we disagree, however, is that I would place the issue of locality squarely in the second category, whilst you place it in the first.
The societal, cultural and geographic landscape has changed unrecognisably from the first century.
It simply makes no sense to have one "church" in Chicago, and one in Anaheim.
But - and this remains my biggest objection - this again focuses on external things, rather than on what matters most. In fact, it detracts from those things.
Which is the stuff in my first category.
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23 Apr 19
I agree with you that some practices are more important than others - crucially important, actually. Such as loving one another, showing compassion, being forgiving, etc. Laws of the heart.
Absolutely. And we need His life for that.
Agreed?
Others are definitely dependent on the culture of the times, the political and societal issues, and hence cannot be applied to the 21st century.
Maybe "cannot" is too strong. But culture and time do influence the customs of the believers.
Viewing the church life through the lense of time and culture is appropriate.
On these two principles I think we agree.
I agree.
Where we disagree, however, is that I would place the issue of locality squarely in the second category, whilst you place it in the first.
The societal, cultural and geographic landscape has changed unrecognisably from the first century.
It simply makes no sense to have one "church" in Chicago, and one in Anaheim.
But - and this remains my biggest objection - this again focuses on external things, rather than on what matters most. In fact, it detracts from those things.
Which is the stuff in my first category. [/quote]
If you do not mistake " one church " for one meeting place, one assembly hall, or one location, it is arguable I think.
The church in Taipei has many meetings halls.
The church in Jerusalem met in hundreds of houses.
The same with a number of large cities - multiple meetings places, meeting halls.
Remember, the church is the called out believers not the physical edifice.
That is could be problematic in some large cities, I would not deny. But if the way is NOT taken, is that problem free ?
I wish I could converse more at this moment, But I am actually called away to some things.
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03 May 19
@sonship saidAnd to ensure we view that in context, let us not forget Lee's words:
If anyone is interested.
Ron Kangus speaks of the Church history and the history of the Lord's recovery. This message is about Witness Lee's portion, his life and work.
The History of the Lord's Recovery -- Witness Lee (1) -RK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aKkfgPk_kU
'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This...is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the building of the genuine church is being accomplished...Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Far, far more serious is the blasphemy that you commit by telling the world that God does not exist - atheist.
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03 May 19
@sonship saidSays the man flogging snake oil...
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Far, far more serious is the blasphemy that you commit by telling the world that God does not exist - atheist.
@sonship saidWhy address this comment to Ghost of a Duke? It's clearly for the consumption of people who believe in blasphemy.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Far, far more serious is the blasphemy that you commit by telling the world that God does not exist - atheist.
How about:
'Hey everybody, fellow Christians! It's very serious... the blasphemy that Ghost of a Duke is committing by telling the world that God does not exist - he's an atheist!'
Fixed.
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06 May 19
2 edits
@FMF
Whether one will have to answer for blasphemy preaching that God doesn't exist - time will tell.
Maybe not.
Maybe so.
Maybe Ghost will spend his last moments in existence looking back over his life and saying "Wow. That certainly was weird. Never did figure this life thing out. "
Time will tell. And you cannot deny that.
I'm satisfied. Time will tell.
But I count Jesus as a believable Person and His words credible and worthy of serious attention.
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06 May 19
@sonship saidAnd of course, whether one will have to answer for blasphemy preaching that man is to be mingled with God,...time will tell.
@FMF
Whether one will have to answer for blasphemy preaching that God doesn't exist - time will tell.
Maybe not.
Maybe so.
Maybe Ghost will spend his last moments in existence looking back over his life and saying "Wow. That certainly was weird. Never did figure this life thing out. "
Time will tell. And you cannot deny that.
I'm satisfied. Time will t ...[text shortened]... l.
But I count Jesus as a believable Person and His words credible and worthy of serious attention.
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06 May 19
And of course, whether one will have to answer for blasphemy preaching that man is to be mingled with God,...time will tell.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
However, Ithink we Christians are on the right track to believe that after receiving Jesus Christ into their spirits they have begun that process.
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06 May 19
@sonship saidYou have pinned your colours to a very strange horse.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
And of course, whether one will have to answer for blasphemy preaching that man is to be mingled with God,...time will tell.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
However, Ithink we Christians are on the right track to believe that after receiving Jesus Christ into their spirits they have begun that process.
Good luck to you.
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07 May 19
1 edit
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
The existence of the local churches I have experienced is evidence enough that transformation is indeed taking place. We could not be one otherwise.
So I believe we have a foretaste of a fuller taste to come - an appetizer, a down payment.
The Lord Jesus is building us up in this age and preparing us for the age to come.
It is hard for many Christians not to anticipate that the transformation of going from unbeliever to believer miraculously and the ongoing pull of sanctification is evidence of more in store.
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07 May 19
@sonship saidIs that evidence verifiable?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
The existence of the local churches I have experienced is evidence enough that transformation is indeed taking place. We could not be one otherwise.
So I believe we have a foretaste of a fuller taste to come - an appetizer, a down payment.
The Lord Jesus is building us up in this age and preparing us for the age to come.