The Wisdom of Witness Lee

@sonship said
Witness Lee speaks of the Christian education he owes to teachers in the denominations and Christianity.

[quote] I was born in Christianity and raised up there. I even received my education in Christianity. In my seeking of the Lord, I passed through organized Christianity, fundamental Christianity, Brethren Christianity, and even Pentecostal Christianity. I also entered i ...[text shortened]... archMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=082AEBDEED

The History of the Church and the Local Churches W. Lee

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Nice. Though once again, doesn't negate:


'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This...is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the building of the genuine church is being accomplished...Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations.

The interpretation of the Bible has been built up by the entire Body of Christ through the past nineteen centuries.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations.

He also wrote:

The interpretation of the Bible has been built up by the entire Body of Christ through the past nineteen centuries.

Christ is building His Body in the past nine ...[text shortened]... ". And she has been in existence for 19 centuries, ie, from the beginning of the church age.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

The proper balance of things spoken by Lee is what I am interested in.
That is strong words in context and balanced by reasonable and realistic words so as to portray a "holistic" understanding of these matters.

Whereas you are as I described back a few posts -

That is a false accusation probably based on an eagerness to misunderstand.

Most evangelical Christians in the denominations revere Billy Graham the American Evangelist. If ever there was a representative of Christianity it was Billy Graham.

How would Witness Lee think of Billy Graham?
1.) Witness Lee defended Billy Graham here.

Some orthodox Christians in America are unreasonable in opposing Billy Graham. ...
Some believers are opposed to Billy Graham and his crusades because even people from heretical groups attend the crusades. Billy Graham, however, cares only that people hear the gospel. He does not care who hears the gospel. He would preach the gospel even if the devil attended a crusade.

This shows that Billy Graham has an enlarged heart. He stands with God and preaches the word to whoever attends. He does not try to please people. He has living faith and receives his burden from God.

You may ask, “Without the big meetings how could we have the increase?” In the sixties when I came to this country, the evangelist Dr. Billy Graham was promoting small group meetings. Because Billy Graham found out that many brought to the gospel were scattered in the denominations and eventually became cold, he encouraged people to form small groups to have Bible study and to pray together. What he promoted was the same in principle as what we are talking about.

Many Christians are narrow-minded and shortsighted. Once they get something, they would stay with that one thing and make it the unique thing. This is wrong. We have to believe in history. Christianity has been on this earth for nearly two thousand years. Millions have been saved, and thousands became giants serving the Lord, including John Wycliffe; the reformers, among whom were Martin Luther, Madame Guyon, Father Fenelon, Brother Lawrence, Zinzendorf, John and Charles Wesley, George Whitefield, and Jonathan Edwards; and the Brethren teachers, among whom were J. N. Darby, William Kelly, and C. H. Mackintosh. The Brethren were especially powerful. They saturated nearly the entire earth with the truths that they had seen from the Word. Then there were Charles Spurgeon, G. Campbell Morgan, S. D. Gordon, A. J. Gordon, Andrew Murray, Charles Finney, D. L. Moody, A. B. Simpson, Watchman Nee, and today there is Billy Graham. All these brothers did not take the way of the so-called Pentecostal movement. Can we exclude them? Of course not. We must broaden our view to see the whole matter.

@sonship

Do you concede it clumsy language by Lee calling them the organizations of Satan, when the Bible condemns such people to hell?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Do you concede it clumsy language by Lee calling them the organizations of Satan, when the Bible condemns such people to hell?

Anyone who looks out upon Christianity and assumes that this is all what Christ wanted should not consider themselves ready to read the book of Revelation.

If this is your assumption that what Christiandom has become is the perfect will of God, better save Revelation for a latter time. You're not ready for this book IMO.

And that goes for some eager people like me sometimes who would like to teach from Revelation to people who are just not ready for that book yet. (I've made mistakes right here on this Forum)

Spend more time in the Gospel of Luke for now perhaps.

Thread highlights so far:

1. Witness Lee viewed Protestants and Catholics as organizations of Satan.
2. Sonship will not separate himself from the above, but digs in.
3. Witness Lee uses a bizarre numerological approach to understanding scripture that wouldn't be out of place in a Dan Brown novel.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

1. Witness Lee viewed Protestants and Catholics as organizations of Satan.

2. Sonship will not separate himself from the above, but digs in.

3. Witness Lee uses a bizarre numerological approach to understanding scripture that wouldn't be out of place in a Dan Brown novel.

Once I know that he is truly a brother in the Lord, I would never question him further to find out whether he is a Baptist, a Presbyterian, or a Methodist. To ask such a question is to be divisive. We are not divisive. We love all Christian brothers no matter whether they are Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, or Episcopalian. I am not a Methodist. If I were a Methodist, I would ask a brother whether or not he is a Methodist. If he were a Methodist, then I would love him. But we are neither Methodists nor members of any other denomination. Rather, we are simply Christians. Instead of being divisive, we love all our brothers, including those in the Catholic Church who are truly saved.

The third biggest group is the Methodists, with approximately thirteen million members. Especially in their earlier days, the Methodist denomination used the Bible very much. Based upon the foundation that John Wesley laid, the Methodist denomination used to use the Bible to the uttermost. Among all the churches of the Pentecostal movement, the one with the greatest number of members is the Assembly of God. The reason for this is that they used the Bible to establish their assemblies. These statistics show us that the best way for the Lord's children to take is to use the Word.

All the different denominations came into existence on their different grounds. Their different names—Presbyterians, Baptists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Pentecostals, and others—are the grounds on which they build their church. On what ground are you being built? Do not say on Christ. Every Christian says that. Whatever denomination or group you go to, they will say that their foundation is Christ. But what about the ground where the foundation is laid?

What is our ground? The ground from the very beginning of the Christian era, from the time of the apostles, is the unique oneness of the Body of Christ, kept and expressed in each local church at its locality (Rev. 1:11). This means that we Christians, in whatever locality we are, come together to be the church there.

@sonship

It really is a shame you are unwilling to grapple honestly with the following:

'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This...is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the building of the genuine church is being accomplished...Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

I told you to fill in the ( ... ), ellipses of those quotations.

Have you do so yet?

I asked you for an alternative interpretation for the parable of the leavened lump.

Have you done that yet?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

If Lee thought nothing good could come from Christiandom why did he speak highly of these Christians? Notice "millions" and "thousands" mentioned.

Millions have been saved, and thousands became giants serving the Lord, including John Wycliffe; the reformers, among whom were Martin Luther, Madame Guyon, Father Fenelon, Brother Lawrence, Zinzendorf, John and Charles Wesley, George Whitefield, and Jonathan Edwards; and the Brethren teachers, among whom were J. N. Darby, William Kelly, and C. H. Mackintosh. The Brethren were especially powerful. They saturated nearly the entire earth with the truths that they had seen from the Word. Then there were Charles Spurgeon, G. Campbell Morgan, S. D. Gordon, A. J. Gordon, Andrew Murray, Charles Finney, D. L. Moody, A. B. Simpson, Watchman Nee, and today there is Billy Graham.

sonship, do you see the fire in the Catholic Notre Dame cathedral as being the destruction of a Satanic symbol?