Originally posted by blindfaith101Jesus said, John 14:11 that if man at that time did not believe in him for who he was, then to believe in him for what he could do,
GOD has done all that you have said that he should. But what should HE do with those that choose not to believe in HIM?
So now, if people can/do not believe in Jesus for what he is, then surely we need to show them what he can do? and I'm not talking about feeding the poor etc, Muslims do that and I dare say they are doing a better job then us.
What did Elijha do when he needed to prove the existence of God? created two alters poured water on his, and gave the other to the Baal profits and said hey boys lets see whose go's up in flames first? Guess who won?
So please stop quoting scriptures to people who do not believe in the validity of the Bible in the first place, just as you will scoff when a Muslim quotes the koran to you, so will they. Instead, draw closer to God, become what he has called you to be. Get the power, raise the dead, heal the sick and live Jesus on the earth. Then turn to the people and say if you don't believe what I say, believe the works I do!
If you do, then there won't be many that choose not to believe, but until that time prehaps we should stop blaming them for not believing and start blaming ourselves.
Originally posted by blindfaith101I'd ask you the same question... but you seem perfectly content with burning them in Hell's Fires for eternity. How sweet of you.
What should HE do with those that choose not to believe in HIM?
I got an idea... he could have an open house in Heaven and introduce himself! "Hi, I'm Jesus. Guess what!? I'm the Christ! Surprised? Don't be, it's all good"!
ES
Originally posted by PhlabibitIt is not the pain of fire in hell that will suck for the lost, it is the seperation from God that is more painful.
I'd ask you the same question... but you seem perfectly content with burning them in Hell's Fires for eternity. How sweet of you.
I got an idea... he could have an open house in Heaven and introduce himself! "Hi, I'm Jesus. Guess what!? I'm the Christ! Surprised? Don't be, it's all good"!
ES
Originally posted by RBHILLInteresting. If somebody is currently alive and is rejecting God, and is thus separated from God, are you saying that hell will be no worse of a torment for that person than his current life on earth? That is, if people are currently separated from God and feeling just fine, hell is nothing they should fear?
It is not the pain of fire in hell that will suck for the lost, it is the seperation from God that is more painful.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThere is a difference between a person who is alive but separated from God and a person who is dead and separated from God. The person who is alive still enjoys as his frame of existence a world constructed fundamentally to benefit humanity (though it might be damaged by human actions - original sin included) as well as a world and society built upon the actions of those who were not separated from God. When the person is dead, he has no such "reflected grace" to rely upon.
Interesting. If somebody is currently alive and is rejecting God, and is thus separated from God, are you saying that hell will be no worse of a torment for that person than his current life on earth? That is, if people are currently separated from God and feeling just fine, hell is nothing they should fear?
Originally posted by lucifershammerSo, you are saying that the gross amount of torment contributed by separation is the same for a living person and a dead person, but the live person has a lower net torment due to the offsetting effects of the living world that is constructed to benefit humanity. That is, the difference in any net torment is due to the reflected grace; but they both suffer an equivalent gross torment. Is this correct?
There is a difference between a person who is alive but separated from God and a person who is dead and separated from God. The person who is alive still enjoys as his frame of existence a world constructed fundamentally to benefit h ...[text shortened]... person is dead, he has no such "reflected grace" to rely upon.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesFor the moment, yes. I also suspect that the nature of free will (I believe a dead soul has none) qualitatively changes the torment, as does the sure knowledge of God - but I'll need to think about that aspect.
So, you are saying that the gross amount of torment contributed by separation is the same for a living person and a dead person, but the live person has a lower net torment due to the offsetting effects of the living world that is constructed to benefit humanity. That is, the difference in any net torment is due to the reflected grace; but they both suffer an equivalent gross torment. Is this correct?
Originally posted by mk83When did Muslims feed the poor more than Christians. Muslims cannot truly say that the BIBLE is false because the Koean testifies of the BIBLE. Their Koran testifies of JESUS CHRIST. True they they donot testify of HIM being The Son Of GOD. which is just one way to show that their's a false faith.You can not say that JESUS CHRIST,is a Good Man, and a Phrophet of god, in one breath. Then say in the next breath kill all those that Believe in HIM. You cannot teach that THE BIBLE is corruptted without giving proof of that corrupttion.Throughout History there has been hate displayed between Muslims and Christians. And to this day Muslims are bent on killing Christians.
Jesus said, John 14:11 that if man at that time did not believe in him for who he was, then to believe in him for what he could do,
So now, if people can/do not believe in Jesus for what he is, then surely we need to show them what he can do? and I'm not talking about feeding the poor etc, Muslims do that and I dare say they are doing a better job then us. ...[text shortened]... til that time prehaps we should stop blaming them for not believing and start blaming ourselves.
I would not be one to say that their are not peaceful Muslims, there are many and I have known some. But their Religion is not one of peace. It does not teach peace. I donot know whether or not that you are saved, or not saved, or a Muslim or not. But you have spoken some thruth, Christian need to do a better job in serving CHRIST.We need to do a better job in spreading the WORD OF GOD. but it is not our fault for what they believe. It is not our fault that their god only speaks Arabic, or you can only pray to him in Arabic. What has been done though is THE WORD OF GOD is written in Arabic, and in just about every speakable tongue on this planet.They now have the same choice as everyone else pick up the Book. They will never be forced to to read THE BIBLE as they force others to read the Koran. They will never be forced to accept JESUS CHRIST as they force others to accept the Koran.
Whether you accept it or not CHRIST died for the sins of all mankind. Whether you accept it or not CHRIST is the SON OF GOD.Whether you accept it or not JESUS CHRIST is GOD. If the Muslim believe that CHRIST was a good man, that HE was a prophet that came from GOD, are they not bound by the Word that HE spoke. To follow what HE said?Just like every Christian? So they donot not follow HIS WORD, but claim that Believe in HIS word. Does that make them just as guilty as all unbelievers? What excuse do they really have? None!
Originally posted by PhlabibitNowhere in GOD'S WORD, does it say that the created purpose of Mankind was to be Hell bound. In fact you can not get into Hell without chooseing to go there. There always has been an an open house in heaven through JESUS CHRIST. Without HIM you cannot get there. So you are right it is all good.
I'd ask you the same question... but you seem perfectly content with burning them in Hell's Fires for eternity. How sweet of you.
I got an idea... he could have an open house in Heaven and introduce himself! "Hi, I'm Jesus. Guess what!? I'm the Christ! Surprised? Don't be, it's all good"!
ES
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesIt will be worse, much worse. But not as worse as the one who once accepted then rejected CHRIST.
Interesting. If somebody is currently alive and is rejecting God, and is thus separated from God, are you saying that hell will be no worse of a torment for that person than his current life on earth? That is, if people are currently separated from God and feeling just fine, hell is nothing they should fear?
Originally posted by blindfaith101How does someone accept Jesus and thenreject him? Surely either they didn't accept him in the first place, or Jesus isn't doing his job properly.
It will be worse, much worse. But not as worse as the one who once accepted then rejected CHRIST.
Originally posted by blindfaith101
When did Muslims feed the poor more than Christians....
Well, I happen to know a few people who work as missionaries in Africa, and they tell me these things, I also happen to know a few muslims, some involved in feeding schemes, some building hospitals etc. I know of many radio stations that feed the poor and donate to good causes, I also know of many rich men that donate millions to good causes. The fact is if you believe in a true God than show me the power of that God, if your God has no power than either he does not exist, or you do not believe in who you think you believe!
Then say in the next breath kill all those that Believe in HIM.
Can anyone say Crusades? Do you remember when people went around raping and killing in the name of Christ? Please lets no throw any stones for we live in a glass house
You cannot teach that THE BIBLE is corruptted without giving proof of that corrupttion.
Please, you cannot teach that the bible is true, without giving proof of that truth, when they teach you maths do they teach a bunch of stuff and go around disproving it until only one is left, no, they teach you one thing and then show proof of that one thing. So lets teach the Word of God but show proof of it as well.
I donot know whether or not that you are saved, or not saved, or a Muslim or not.
Saved, but lets just say that I have come to the conclusion that I have no right to judge any man or his religion, all I can do is try the best that I can to live Jesus Christ and then let that stand as the truth.
We need to do a better job in spreading the WORD OF GOD. but it is not our fault for what they believe.
You are right, I was harsh in condemning Christians for the state of the world, but you have to agree we have been called to be the light and the salt of the world and I for one am not yet doing the best job that I possibly can, and so yes, I think I need to agree with Paul, that having recieved much grace I have become much of a sinner. More so than those that have recieved less grace.
Whether you accept it or not CHRIST died for the sins of all mankind. Whether you accept it or not CHRIST is the SON OF GOD.Whether you accept it or not JESUS CHRIST is GOD.
Yes he is, now lets prove it to the world through the power of Christ in us, lets live this truth, lets not quote dead scripture, but live Christ daily, bringing light and truth to the world.
So they donot not follow HIS WORD, but claim that Believe in HIS word. Does that make them just as guilty as all unbelievers? What excuse do they really have? None!
I wish not to condemn you, but I think you condemn both of us and all Christians in the above statement, can any but Jesus Christ claim to have truely followed God's word to the letter at all times? The thing is if you live by the law and you fail but one letter of it, you have failed it all.
Jesus said if you truely believe in me you will do what I say, and if you do what I say I will live in you and the father also, to believe in Jesus is more than just to say I believe in Jesus, it is to follow him, to walk with him, to be with him, to live him, every day, every moment every hour. I cannot as yet claim to have that relasionship, but I am happy to carry on by the Grace of God and hope to one day reach the point where his and my spirit are truely one, yes then I can say I believe in Jesus.
blindfaith101 please do not think I am trying to condemn you or anyone by this or any of my other posts, if i have please forgive me, we were called not to condemn but to set free.
MK83