05 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by windmillIf God knows what I will have for dinner tonight, then it has already been determined what I will have for dinner tonight, for knowledge pertains only to facts, and facts are only things that have been determined.
God's ability to know the future doesn't change your free will.
But if it has already been determined, then it is an illusion that I am exercising free will in choosing my dinner, since I am not doing the determining.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeIf you went around and interviewed people in my church and my denomination, I would venture to say that 99% would say God is omniscient. So to answer your question, this is my particular experience of faith.
The Triune God does not know the future, which means that you do not believe in God's omniscience.
Is this a belief confessed by your Church, the Southern Baptist Church if my memory serves me well, or is it your own version of the Christian faith ?
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesGod knowing something doesn't determine it.It would only be determined by God if He took action...which is fine.
If God knows what I will have for dinner tonight, then it has already been determined what I will have for dinner tonight, for knowledge pertains only to facts, and facts are only things that have been determined.
But if it has already been determined, then it is an illusion that I am exercising free will in choosing my dinner, since I am not doing the determining.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by kirksey957I see, but to be precise it is not an experience but an opinion. Correct ? Otherwise I'm awfully curious to hear from you about that experience.
If you went around and interviewed people in my church and my denomination, I would venture to say that 99% would say God is omniscient. So to answer your question, this is my particular experience of faith.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesYou are having problems with perspective and the notion of time. I don't blame you however. We all have.
If God knows what I will have for dinner tonight, then it has already been determined what I will have for dinner tonight, for knowledge pertains only to facts, and facts are only things that have been determined.
But if it has already been determined, then it is an illusion that I am exercising free will in choosing my dinner, since I am not doing the determining.
05 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhen God sent his son in John 3:16, did he already know who all would believe in him? If he did, then God really sent his son only for those select people. He didn't send any help for those whom he knew would not believe in Jesus - he left them no hope whatsoever, and he knew it. Is this compatible with your notion of God? If not, then you must reject his omniscience.
Could you give me, let's say, three instances ?
When God tested Abraham, did he know the outcome? If he did, then the test was a sadistic exercise - he didn't need to carry it out to know that Abraham would be faithful. Is sadism compatible with your notion of God? If not, then you must reject his omniscience.
When God made Adam and Eve, did he know that they would eat the fruit? If he did, then it was inevitable that they would sin. Thus, God punished them for something beyond their control. Is such great injustice compatible with your notion of God? If not, then you must reject omniscience.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeWell, I don't that I am that much different from other people in that my experiences shape who I am. I would point you to the first post in the "spiritual autobiography" thread. This is a wonderful account of God in life. Was it necessary for God to be omniscient in his account for there to be some spiritual/human insight for him?
I see, but to be precise it is not an experience but an opinion. Correct ? Otherwise I'm awfully curious to hear from you about that experience.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeWell, that could have been part of the instructions. But even if he didn't follow instructions, he did something which according to the bible was predicted and necessary. What would have happened if he hadn't done it? Would someone else have stepped in for him? What if nobody would have wanted to do it? If people really have a free will, that would have been a possibility, wouldn't it?
If that is true he wouldn't have committed suicide.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribbles-U added in only?????
When God sent his son in John 3:16, did he already know who all would believe in him? If he did, then God really sent his son only for those select people. He didn't send any help for those whom he knew would not believe in Jesus - he left them no hope whatsoever, and he knew it. Is this compatible with your notion of God? If not, then you must ...[text shortened]... h great injustice compatible with your notion of God? If not, then you must reject omniscience.
-Yes He did know the outcome and Abraham i'm sure would have become a better man as his faith and others would have grown big time through listening to God.
-That's a good one.God created a world beyond their own control and punished them for it.I'm sure they learnt to become more obediant.