Like the word “trinity” the phrase “eternal son” does not appear anywhere in the bible.
For the doctrine of the trinity to be correct, Jesus must be an “eternal son”. But Jesus is not an “eternal son” this concept is man made and deeply erroneous.
Jesus as a “son” was born in the flesh. His role as a “son” had a beginning and therefore it has an end. Therefore there is no “eternal son” and therefore the trinity doctrine cannot hold.
This is the fundamental error with the trinity doctrine. All the stuff about its pagan roots, which incidentally is also true, is just the stuff of academia and selling books.
The problem with it is that there is NO “eternal son”. The Son is a temporary role, a temporary office of flesh, an avatar of the ONE living God who came and dwelt among us.
There is NO “eternal son” and therefore there is no trinity.
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Like the word “trinity” the phrase “eternal son” does not appear anywhere in the bible.
God speaks to the Son of God, addressing the Son of God as "O God"{/b] and saying that His throne (the Son's throne) is [b]"forever and ever".
"And of the angels He [God] says, "Who makes His angels winds and His ministers a flame of fire";
But of the Son, [He, God says] "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom." (Hebrews 1:7-8)
1.) God says the Son is God.
2.) God says the Son's throne is forever and ever.
3.) God says the eternal reigning Son has a kingdom and a scepter of uprightness to it.
For the doctrine of the trinity to be correct, Jesus must be an “eternal son”. But Jesus is not an “eternal son” this concept is man made and deeply erroneous.
The previous referred verse proves the Son is the eternal God with a kingdom and throne forever and ever.
Following verse 8 the writer of Hebrews draws directly from Psalm 102:25-27 to establish in verses 10 -12 that the Son is God the Creator who will out endure all creation.
"And, "You in the beginning, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands;
They will perish, but You remain perpetually; and they all will become old like a garment,
And like a mantle You will roll them up; like a garment they will also be changed;
but You remain the same, and Your years will not fail." (Heb. 1:10-12, compare Psalm 102:25-27)
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Jesus as a “son” was born in the flesh. His role as a “son” had a beginning and therefore it has an end. Therefore there is no “eternal son” and therefore the trinity doctrine cannot hold.
As proved above, clearly the throne of the Son (addressed as "O God" ) is not temporary but for eternity.
Correspondingly the believers are called "the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:11)
The Son of God our Lord Jesus Christ has "the eternal kingdom"
The knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is unto the day of eternity.
"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and unto the day of eternity." (2 Peter 3:18)
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And He of the Triune God has a reign over the world forever and ever.
"And the seventh angel trumpeted; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15)
This has to be the Triune God because however way you read it -our Lord and of His Christ has to be the Triune God.
There is ONE Lord - "One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph. 4:5,6)
So "our Lord and of His Christ" has to be the One Lord - the embodied Triune God.
If the sons of God are to reign forever and ever, how can not THE SON reign forever and ever before them?
" . . . and they will reign frever and ever" (Rev. 22:5)
They refers to those of whom Gpd says "He who overcomes will inherrt these things, and I will be God to him and he will be a son to Me." (Rev. 21:7)
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Divegeester is implying a false teaching that plural "sons" of God reign forever and ever, but THE SON as has only a temporary office and passing away kingdom.
This is his idea of eternal [plural] sons, yet a not eternal Son.
The kingdom presented to the Son of Man in Daniel is an eternal kingdom.
"One like a Son of Man was coming; And He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought HIm near before HIm.
And to Him was given dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages might serve Him.
His dominion is an ETERNAL dominion, which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one that will not be destroyed." (See Daniel 7:13,14)
The problem with it is that there is NO “eternal son”. The Son is a temporary role, a temporary office of flesh, an avatar of the ONE living God who came and dwelt among us.
How can the "Son of Man" have an eternal kingdom given to Him if He is not HImself eternal?
There is NO “eternal son” and therefore there is no trinity.
How can there be sons [plural] who reign forever and ever but the Son - the Firstborn among many brothers (Rom. 8:28) not be eternal.
Back to Hebrews 1:8 the Son's throne is not only forever and ever in an eternal kingdom. But He is anointed with the oil of exultant joy ABOVE His partners.
"You have loveed righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed YOu with the oil of exultant joy above Youer partners."
1.) He is addressed as God.
2.) He is the Son of God.
3.) He has an eternal kingdom.
4.) He has partners who He is among YET ABOVE as preeminent.
" . . . the oil of exultant joy above Your partners." so He is God-man.
And this proves there is THE Son of God and the sons of God.
And the Trinity of course stands up to your attack.
The Son Jesus Christ is "our God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1)
Whatever sand bags you pile into this thread sonship you still need to know and acknowledge that…
- there is NO eternal son
- Jesus as a son was BORN in the flesh
- the office of son has a beginning and therefore an end
- Jesus is the Lord, the same Lord as in the OT
- the trinity is so wrong it’s almost a joke!
ONE God, ONE entity, multiple manifestations of the same being across the millennia.
@divegeester saidSo when Jesus said before Abraham I Am, Jesus lied? All the other references that speaks to the Word of God becoming a man are simply more scriptures that you knowing better than the writers of the text know with greater understanding?
Whatever sand bags you pile into this thread sonship you still need to know and acknowledge that…
- there is NO eternal son
- Jesus as a son was BORN in the flesh
- the office of son has a beginning and therefore an end
- Jesus is the Lord, the same Lord as in the OT
- the trinity is so wrong it’s almost a joke!
ONE God, ONE entity, multiple manifestations of the same being across the millennia.
@kellyjay saidJesus is Jehovah expressed in human form, “the veil of flesh.”.
So when Jesus said before Abraham I Am, Jesus lied? All the other references that speaks to the Word of God becoming a man are simply more scriptures that you knowing better than the writers of the text know with greater understanding?
Jesus is not a separate being, not an eternal son, “he is the invisible God made visible”
He was “made a little lower than the angels” because he was Jehovah.
The “mystery of God in Christ” is not explained by 3 gods in 1 god nonsense. He is ONE person revealed in multiple ways.
@divegeester saidSo He is the eternal god who talks to himself, gets sent by himself, refers to himself in the third person, who as a side show while he was getting baptized appeared as a dove for the Holy Spirit and Spoke as Jesus Father saying he was well pleased with himself? You have a very convoluted doctrine!
Jesus is Jehovah expressed in human form, “the veil of flesh.”.
Jesus is not a separate being, not an eternal son, “he is the invisible God made visible”
He was “made a little lower than the angels” because he was Jehovah.
The “mystery of God in Christ” is not explained by 3 gods in 1 god nonsense. He is ONE person revealed in multiple ways.
@kellyjay saidDon’t be silly just because you don’t understand KellyJay. Why not try to be less of an old wineskin and seek to understand before judging…
So He is the eternal god who talks to himself, gets sent by himself, refers to himself in the third person, who as a side show while he was getting baptized appeared as a dove for the Holy Spirit and Spoke as Jesus Father saying he was well pleased with himself? You have a very convoluted doctrine!
Huh…?
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@divegeester
Is confessing before the world "Jesus is Lord" old wine or old wineskins to you?
" . . . no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3)
I sonship - Jack Wilmore confess in the sight and hearing of God that JESUS is LORD !
WIll you not follow me to confess Jesus is Lord because of either old wine or old wineskins?
@sonship saidI don’t recognise your belief values as something my Jesus would approve of.
@divegeester
Is confessing before the world "Jesus is Lord" old wine or old wineskins to you?
" . . . no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3)
I sonship - Jack Wilmore confess in the sight and hearing of God that JESUS is LORD !
WIll you not follow me to confess Jesus is Lord because of either old wine or old wineskins?
@divegeester saidYour explanation is worse than your doctrine.
Don’t be silly just because you don’t understand KellyJay. Why not try to be less of an old wineskin and seek to understand before judging…
Huh…?