@kellyjay saidI am an independent, freethinking, progressive, liberal Christian.
You then don't have a clue what those two words mean.
Independent in that I do not belong to any denominational sect, creed or group.
Freethinking in that I am not bound by the doctrines of men nor the dogmatism which goes with them
Progressive in that I try to progress my own understanding of accepted “Christian” beliefs, especially if I find them to be amoral, abusive, logically incoherent or those which demean or diminish the one Lord. E.g. the trinity doctrine.
Liberal in that I try to be tolerant of the beliefs of others except where they contravene the above point.
19 Apr 22
@divegeester saidSo He is the Son of God, in the trinity eternal, or is it just a position someone gave him after he was made according to you?
Yes. I said he is the invisible god made visible. I’ve said in this thread and I’ve said it dozens and dozens of times in threads over the years.
Do you even slow down to actually read what I write?
@kellyjay
Jesus is the invisible god made visible
Jehovah made visible
Jehovah born into new baby flesh
Jesus flesh was born, created in Mary’s womb
Jesus came as a son, he started as a baby and grew up to be a son
This son had a beginning when Jesus flesh was born
Jehovah held this office of sonship simultaneously as being the Father - it’s a mystery how, says so in the NT, it’s a mystery of god in Christ.
This office of sonship had a purpose, it had a beginning and it will complete its purpose and it will have an end.
All that time Jesus will be the body housing the spirit of Jehovah
There is ONE entity, not three!
One god.
19 Apr 22
@divegeester saidSo your Jesus was made, born when he was born, assigned to die so that we could be saved, which is what I said you were saying.
Jesus is the invisible god made visible
Jehovah made visible
Jehovah born into new baby flesh
Jesus flesh was born, created in Mary’s womb
Jesus came as son, he started as a baby and grew up to be a son
This son had a beginning when Jesus flesh was born
Jehovah held this office of sonship simultaneously as being the Father - it’s a mystery how, says so in the NT ...[text shortened]... e Jesus will be the body housing the spirit of Jehovah
There is ONE entity, not three!
One god.
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19 Apr 22
2 edits
Is confessing before the world "Jesus is Lord" old wine or old wineskins to you?
" . . . no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3)
I sonship - Jack Wilmore confess in the sight and hearing of God that JESUS is LORD !
WIll you not follow me to confess Jesus is Lord because of either old wine or old wineskins?
I don’t recognise your belief values as something my Jesus would approve of.
I think this is an excuse.
I notice that you can say "my Jesus" but you won't say "my Lord Jesus."
" . . . no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3)
"Your Jesus" would not approve of you calling Him Lord?
It makes God happy that all tongues confess Jesus is Lord.
"Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who re in heaven and on erth and under the earth,
And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philppians 2:9-11)
19 Apr 22
@divegeester saidGlad you agree, then.
@kellyjay
Jesus is the invisible god made visible
Jehovah made visible
Jehovah born into new baby flesh
Jesus flesh was born, created in Mary’s womb
Jesus came as a son, he started as a baby and grew up to be a son
This son had a beginning when Jesus flesh was born
Jehovah held this office of sonship simultaneously as being the Father - it’s a mystery how, s ...[text shortened]... e Jesus will be the body housing the spirit of Jehovah
There is ONE entity, not three!
One god.
@kellyjay saidSlow down and think it through.
So your Jesus was made, born when he was born, assigned to die so that we could be saved, which is what I said you were saying.
Jesus flesh was created in Mary’s womb, correct?
Jesus flesh was born, correct?
Before that flesh was created in Mary’s womb, the flesh of Jesus did not exist.
All that existed was Jehovah’s spirit. ONE spirit, not two and not three spirits. ONE!
Jesus flesh housed the spirit of God, an extension of God himself. But still Jehovah not a second person.
The mystery of God in Christ is not explained by the creation of three people in one god. It’s utter pagan nonsense.
Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
It says this in the Bible hundreds of times.
@sonship saidDo you know what sonship, you’re a total ignoramus.
@divegeester
[quote] Is confessing before the world "Jesus is Lord" old wine or old wineskins to you?
" . . . no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3)
I sonship - Jack Wilmore confess in the sight and hearing of God that JESUS is LORD !
WIll you not follow me to confess Jesus is Lord because of either old wine or old wines ...[text shortened]... d openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philppians 2:9-11) [/b]
Your head is far up your own dogma you can’t stop and breath in what I’m telling you. You can’t even look at it and consider my words so you can at least understand what I believe.
Read my posts, read what is actually written and stop seeing what you want to see.
19 Apr 22
3 edits
@divegeester saidThe Word of God made flesh was the Word of God long before He became a man. The divinity of Christ is why He could lay down His life for us and take on in full the punishment for every sin ever done on our behalf. It is declared that there is no greater love than when someone would lay down their lives for another, and that is precisely what God did when Jesus became a man and died for us.
Slow down and think it through.
Jesus flesh was created in Mary’s womb, correct?
Jesus flesh was born, correct?
Before that flesh was created in Mary’s womb, the flesh of Jesus did not exist.
All that existed was Jehovah’s spirit. ONE spirit, not two and not three spirits. ONE!
Jesus flesh house the spirit of God, an extension of God himself. But still Jehovah n ...[text shortened]... onsense.
Hear of Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
It says this in the Bible hundreds of times.
That is not what you are saying; you are saying Jesus was born, had a beginning, and was made for the slaughter; that isn't love; they used to do that with cattle and goats other created things. It would be like me grabbing one of my kids to sacrifice them for my neighborhood so I could forgive their crimes against me, don't hurt me; my kid may suffer, but the neighborhood is forgiven. The eternal Son of God became sin for us so we could be forgiven, innocent and murdered by us on a cross, and rose from the dead so we could in Him share His life forgiven for all we do. Or Jesus could have been anyone else assigned to take the fall for us and God could have created a Bob to do it!
@kellyjay saidGive me patience!
The Word of God made flesh was the Word of God long before He became a man. The divinity of Christ is why He could lay down His life for us and take on in full the punishment for every sin ever done on our behalf. It is declared that there is no greater love than when someone would lay down their lives for another, and that is precisely what God did when Jesus became a man a ...[text shortened]... ld have been anyone else assigned to take the fall for us and God could have created a Bob to do it!
Put your dogma aside for a moment and try to think differently.
Let’s take it from the top, the headline facts.
- Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE. This is the cry of the prophets throughout the OT. God is spirit and there is ONE spirit.
Unless you can hold that fact steady in your mind you will not be able understand what I believe on this. I’m not asking you to accept it, I just want you to understand it.
Ok we established that God is ONE spirit, not three. Are you still with me? I’m not meaning to be patronising but unless you accept this truth you will always be dragged back to God being three. He is ONE spirit. The bible says so hundreds of times.
So in this scenario who is Jesus?
Well he is man and he is God, do we agree on that?
His flesh was created in Mary’s womb, do we agree on that?
So his God part is who?
Now go back to the point above, where we agreed that God is ONE spirit, and hold onto that truth.
Therefore the same ONE spirit that is Jehovah is the same ONE spirit that is in Jesus.
That is what I believe.
It is the only scenario which permits god to remain ONE and yet be the mystery of god in the flesh of Jesus.
19 Apr 22
@divegeester saidDogma is a truth that is accepted, and now if you have no truths in your life, I suggest you get some. At least declare what you are telling me is true; if you cannot do that because it becomes a dogma, what are you doing? You cannot correct anyone and prove they are wrong if there is nothing in your life that is true to compare it to.
Give me patience!
Put your dogma aside for a moment and try to think differently.
Let’s take it from the top, the headline facts.
- Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE. This is the cry of the prophets throughout the OT. God is spirit and there is ONE spirit.
Unless you can hold that fact steady in your mind you will not be able understand what I believe on t ...[text shortened]... he only scenario which permits god to remain ONE and yet be the mystery of god in the less of Jesus.
I have to go, I'll review the rest of your statement later when I have time.
19 Apr 22
@kellyjay saidOk I’ll accept that what I believe is my dogma. Will you know stop using that as excuse to not look closely at what I’ve been writing?
Dogma is a truth that is accepted, and now if you have no truths in your life, I suggest you get some. At least declare what you are telling me is true; if you cannot do that because it becomes a dogma, what are you doing? You cannot correct anyone and prove they are wrong if there is nothing in your life that is true to compare it to.