20 Apr 22
@kellyjay
What were your thoughts on this post from page 3?
Jesus flesh was created in Mary’s womb, correct?
Jesus flesh was born, correct?
Before that flesh was created in Mary’s womb, the flesh of Jesus did not exist.
All that existed was Jehovah’s spirit. ONE spirit, not two and not three spirits. ONE!
Jesus flesh housed the spirit of God, an extension of God himself. But still Jehovah not a second person.
The mystery of God in Christ is not explained by the creation of three people in one god. It’s utter pagan nonsense.
Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
It says this in the Bible hundreds of times.
20 Apr 22
@divegeester saidYou judge scripture by what you think it should say; your opinion isn't static; it is based on what you think is true, which could change; that is different from relying on the text, which doesn't change. This is why you reject many scriptures in favor of your opinion; you know better in your mind.
I don’t have an ever changing point of view, what are you on about?
@kellyjay saidNo, my opinion on the matters we’ve discussed in here haven’t changed in decades. The only stuff I reject are some of your interpretations.
You judge scripture by what you think it should say; your opinion isn't static; it is based on what you think is true, which could change; that is different from relying on the text, which doesn't change. This is why you reject many scriptures in favor of your opinion; you know better in your mind.
Sorry to disappoint.
20 Apr 22
Hey @kellyjay
What were your thoughts on this post from page 3?
Jesus flesh was created in Mary’s womb, correct?
Jesus flesh was born, correct?
Before that flesh was created in Mary’s womb, the flesh of Jesus did not exist.
All that existed was Jehovah’s spirit. ONE spirit, not two and not three spirits. ONE!
Jesus flesh housed the spirit of God, an extension of God himself. But still Jehovah not a second person.
The mystery of God in Christ is not explained by the creation of three people in one god. It’s utter pagan nonsense.
Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
It says this in the Bible hundreds of times.
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20 Apr 22
4 edits
But one of the aspects of Christ - the mystery of God is that the Son is eternal.
Jesus flesh was created in Mary’s womb, correct?
Yes, the whole human man is an item of God's creation.
But before the birth of the man Jesus "God sent forth His Son, born of a
woman" .
"But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under law . . . " (Gal. 14:4)
God sent forth the Son Who was the Logos with God and who was God (John 1:1) to be born of a woman, the virgin, to be born under law.
The Son Who was to be born a man and become ruler of Israel was from days of eternity according to the prophet Micah.
But you O Bethlehem Ephrathah . . . from you will come forth to Me He who is to be Ruler in Israel; And His goings forth are from ancient times, from days of eternity; ) (Micah 5:2)
Jesus flesh was born, correct?
Before that flesh was created in Mary’s womb, the flesh of Jesus did not exist.
This mystery of God - Christ includes that God sent forth His Son to be born of a woman (Gal. 4:4).
This mystery of God - Christ includes that the One born a human in Bethlehem had His goings forth from eternity.
Jesus said "Before Abraham came into being, I Am". He could have said Before Abraham was He was. But He said I - and the I speaking is Jesus.
"Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I saw to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am." (John 8:58)
Because He was not yet 50 years old His speaking of being before Abraham and being the "I Am" of Exodus was considered by the Jews there blasphemy and worthy of being stoned to death.
So yes, on one had the man Jesus was born an item of creation.
But yes also He as the Son of God whose goings forth are from days of eternity (Micah 5:2) whom God sent forth at the fullness of the times to be born of a woman.
When God sent His only-begotten Son He gave His only-begotten Son.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, . . . "(John 3:16)
This concerns His eternal being from the past.
I spoke elswhere about how in resurrection that human part that He cothed Himself in He uplifted and it was deified as His resurrection was the birth not of the only begotten Son but of the Firstborn Son in the glorifies human nature and flesh back to the eternal throne forever.
All that existed was Jehovah’s spirit. ONE spirit, not two and not three spirits. ONE!
So the mystery of Christ includes God is three-one - triune.
For from the beginning He said "Let Us make man in Our image, according to
Our likeness" (Gen 1.26)
The Logos, the Word of John 1:1 was WITH God and WAS God.
Therefore "Let Us" would be the mysterious God speaking and creating.
"And God created man in His own image . . ." (Gen. 1:27)
The word for God is Elohim which would be more than two.
If one argues, that one has to admit that Elohim is a plural pronoun.
But the verb following is in the singular suprisingly - "So Elohim created [singular form of the verb created] . . . in His [singular pronoun] image."
The Us Who and the His includes that Son whom God sent forth to be born of a woman. The Us and the Elohim includes the One whose goings forth are from days of eternity Who is to become Ruler in Israel.
The Us includes the Son who was God's only-begotten Whom He gave.
Jesus flesh housed the spirit of God, an extension of God himself. But still Jehovah not a second person.
The mystery of God in Christ is not explained by the creation of three people in one god. It’s utter pagan nonsense.
20 Apr 22
@divegeester saidJesus was born, not created in Mary's womb; we begat we have children, we don't create them. The Word became flesh when Jesus entered the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. It didn't say the Father transformed Himself into Mary as you suggest; the Father sent the Son, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary; she became with a child who was Christ the Lord.
@kellyjay
What were your thoughts on this post from page 3?
Jesus flesh was created in Mary’s womb, correct?
Jesus flesh was born, correct?
Before that flesh was created in Mary’s womb, the flesh of Jesus did not exist.
All that existed was Jehovah’s spirit. ONE spirit, not two and not three spirits. ONE!
Jesus flesh housed the spirit of God, an extensi ...[text shortened]... nse.
Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
It says this in the Bible hundreds of times.
When you see Jesus, you see the Father He and the Father are One; you take that to mean numerical one, it is closer to a marriage where the man and woman become one a family or a group of people with a common cause, but because the nature of God is so far above us, it is difficult to wrap our minds around.
The fact you have to call each one out then deny you are calling each one out shows your contradiction. They are one; in essence, they are in loving, perfected harmony where there is no contradiction with each other or themselves. There is no shadow of turning, no improvement over time, no hypocrisy at any moment, no respecter of persons; God acts in total justice, goodness, and love, with everything He does and says. You describe something convoluted, where god is ever-changing into this or that to suit the moment.
20 Apr 22
@kellyjay saidIrrespective of the minutiae of semantics, the flesh of Jesus did not exist until it was planted, placed, overshadowed, dropped from a great height, whatever word fits your tightly held dogmatic mindset… into the womb of Mary.
Jesus was born, not created in Mary's womb; we begat we have children, we don't create them. The Word became flesh when Jesus entered the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. It didn't say the Father transformed Himself into Mary as you suggest; the Father sent the Son, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary; she became with a child who was Christ the Lord.
The flesh of Jesus did not exist anywhere until that happened. Therefore only his spirit existed and his spirit was the “word” but he wasn’t a “son” until he was born. That is the point I’m making and you know it, don’t you.
Please be intellectually honest.
@kellyjay saidI’m sorry, what!
When you see Jesus, you see the Father He and the Father are One; you take that to mean numerical one, it is closer to a marriage where the man and woman become one a family or a group of people with a common cause, but because the nature of God is so far above us, it is difficult to wrap our minds around.
You quibble over my use of “created” and then type all this stuff which you are just made up. The bible states that Jesus said:
“When you have seen me you have seen the Father”
“I and the father are ONE”
This is exactly precisely and completely what I am saying. To the letter. ONE not THREE.
In the OT, BEFORE the flesh of Jesus was born Jehovah says dozens and dozens of times:
“Hear oh Israel the LORD your God is ONE”
But KellyJay still says: no it is three, no the son is eternal.
It does not hold up KellyJay. God is ONE entity manifested in multiple ways and it is completely clear in the bible if you bother to look.
@kellyjay saidI have explained the nature of the Godhead to you in terms a child could understand. It fits totally with scripture, as I’ve demonstrated in my post above, it fits completely with the way God describes himself through the Bible.
The fact you have to call each one out then deny you are calling each one out shows your contradiction. They are one; in essence, they are in loving, perfected harmony where there is no contradiction with each other or themselves. There is no shadow of turning, no improvement over time, no hypocrisy at any moment, no respecter of persons; God acts in total justice, goodness, ...[text shortened]... You describe something convoluted, where god is ever-changing into this or that to suit the moment.
What I’ve described magnifies the deity of Jesus, is magnifies the importance of seeing who he is, it magnifies what God did at Calvary by coming himself in the flesh, it magnifies the solidarity of the one living God being manifested himself across the millennia and it gives all the glory to him through Jesus Christ because he is Jehovah in the flesh. How can it be anything else!
The trinity divides the glory between two, (the holy spirit as the third person in the multi-headed godhead doesn’t take glory remember), it separates the divinity between three, it diminishes the work of calvary by separating the victory from Jehovah, it confuses the natural part of the human mind, it conflicts directly with the words of Jesus and it is of pagan origin.
20 Apr 22
@divegeester saidJesus became a man, the only begotten of the Father. He molded Adam from the earth and breathed life into him. When God was creating the universe and everything in it was through the Word of God, and God said. You are attempting to force scripture into saying something that changes the nature of God into something that is constantly changing while the scriptures are steadfast that does not happen. Applying dogma to my views while expressing yours is funny; you are pushing a doctrine that is nothing more than a set of beliefs while claiming you have none. This is why many of the things you say, I don't believe you understand the gravity of much of them.
Irrespective of the minutiae of semantics, the flesh of Jesus did not exist until it was planted, placed, overshadowed, dropped from a great height, whatever word fits your tightly held dogmatic mindset… into the womb of Mary.
The flesh of Jesus did not exist anywhere until that happened. Therefore only his spirit existed and his spirit was the “word” but he wa ...[text shortened]... born. That is the point I’m making and you know it, don’t you.
Please be intellectually honest.
Jesus didn't become a man until He became a man; yeah, get that, I wasn't aware that was supposed to be a revelation I could have missed taking all scriptures into account.
Don't you realize that God is eternal and that time is meaningless to God? Just because for us, the beginning from the end happens one moment at a time, not so God. So the beginning from the end is always before God, so there is no contradiction when we read the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
20 Apr 22
@kellyjay saidI understand what you believe and how you feel about me.
Jesus became a man, the only begotten of the Father. He molded Adam from the earth and breathed life into him. When God was creating the universe and everything in it was through the Word of God, and God said. You are attempting to force scripture into saying something that changes the nature of God into something that is constantly changing while the scriptures are steadfas ...[text shortened]... s not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Meanwhile please free to directly and specifically address the laser focused points I’ve made across several posts.
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20 Apr 22
4 edits
Jesus flesh was created in Mary’s womb, correct?
This is a great mystery. The Creator was created in the womb of a woman.
Concerning this Person He said He was with the Father before the foundation of the world - before the creation of the universe.
"These things JESUS spoke . . . (John 17:1) . . .And now, glorify Me along with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." (v.5)
Jesus flesh was born, correct?
Yet Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world was.
"These things JESUS spoke . . . (John 17:1) . . .And now, glorify Me along with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." (v.5)
And Jesus flesh was created in Mary’s womb, correct?
Yes, indeed.
Yet Jesus Christ, the mystery of God said the Father had loved HIm before the foundation of the world.
" . . . for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." ( John 17:24)
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20 Apr 22
1 edit
Laser focussed:
"These things Jesus spoke . . .And this is eternal life, that they may know You, Him whom You have sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:1,3)
The Creator became a man and was born in a woman staying nine months in the womb of Mary.
"God sent forth His Son, born of a woman . . . "
Other English renderings of Gal. 4:4 -
Amplified Bible
But when [in God’s plan] the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the [regulations of the] Law,
Christian Standard Bible
When the time came to completion, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
American Standard Version
but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,