There is no “eternal son”

@divegeester


This general summary of your Modalistic Christology do not deal with the points in Hebrews.

Before Jesus was born in the flesh, before his flesh was conceived and grew in Mary’s womb, there was ONE spirit in heaven and on earth, the spirit of Jehovah.

That there is one Spirit doesn't address Jesus being made a Priest forever Whom God will not regret making Him so. Not yet.

"But He, because He abides forever, has His priesthood unalterable. Hence He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them." (Heb. 7:24,25)

There being ONE Spirit doesn't make the perpetual priesthood of the resurrected and glorfied man Jesus, the Son of God not happen.

There being ONE Spirit does not hault the Son of God being "the Son, perfected forever." (v.28)

And your next point?

After Jesus was was born lived and ascended there was still ONE spirit in heaven. A 2nd spirt had not been created.

That is true that there is eternally one Spirit. But the Spirit of God after Jesus the last Adam and the second man "became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) now included the humanity, human accomplishments of the man Jesus.

"the last Adam became a life g iving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
And the compounding of the humanity of the man Jesus occured once Jesus had been glorified. For this compoounding of His human nature and work into the eternal Spirit was not yet until He was glorified in resurrection.

"He who believes into Me, as the Scriptures said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive;

for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (JOhn 7:38,39)

The eternal Spirit was in existenfence in Genisis brooding over the face of the deep (Gen. 1:2) - " . . . and the Spirit of God was brooding over the surface of the waters."

But the eternal Spirit had compounded into Him the human nature, life, death resurrection, work, accomplishment of the man Jesus to be YET for dispensing the God-man Jesus into His disciples.

The Spirit was not YET. The words "given" in italics in the KJV indicate they are supplied. Their editorial rendering was their understanding that the Spirit was not yet GIVEN. Actually the litural meaning in this case is "the Spirit was not yet."

Before "the last Adam BECAME a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) the ONE Spirit compounded with the man Jesus was not yet. When Jesus entered into His glory in resurrection, the last Adam became a life giving Spirit - the one eternal Spirit containing now the glorified resurrected humanity of Jesus.

Jesus was glorified in this sense in His resurrection:
"Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into His glory?" (Luke 24:26)

When the man Jesus resurrected "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit"{/b] and the Spirit now compounded with His incarnation, human living, death, resurrection, as added elements made the life giving Spirit [b]yet." He is still one eternal Spirit.

The human flesh of Jesus did not exist prior to his birth. Before his birth there was only ONE spirit. After his ascension there was STILL ONE spirit.

That is right.
Before and after the incarnation, life, death and resurrection there is and always
will be one Spirit.

But God's economy contains to BECAMES in His process to become life to man.

1.) "And the Word BECAME flesh" (John 1:14)
2.) "the last Adam BECAME a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

This humanity that God became was deified, uplifted, glorfied, compunded into the eternal Spirit of the Triune God.

God does not change. God is ONE. Therefore the spirit of Jehovah and the spirt of Jesus are ONE.

But if the Word BECAME flesh God BECAME something that before He was not.

But if the last Adam BECAME a life giving Spirit" the God who was incarnated, lived, died, resurrected, and ascended BECAME something that before He was not.

The Bible is not always as simple as creedal formulas wish to make it.

This glorified man you think will become obsolete and lose His office.
There is no losing of this office of Son of God.
This man whom God became was perfected forever and remains a High Priest
forever.

"The Lord has sworn and will not regret it, You are a Priest forever" (Heb. 7:21b) Before the Word became flesh when God was incarnated there was no resurrected man as an eternal Priest whom God will never regret inaguarating.

He will not regret because it is of His eternal purpose that this God-man head up all things in the ages to come. (Eph. 1:10,11)

"Unto the economy of the fullness of the times, to head up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, in Him; In whim also we were dsesignated as an inheritance, having been predestinated according to the purpose of the One who works all things according to the counsel of His will, That we would be to the praise of His glory who first hoped in Christ."

In the Triune God's operation the saved become the inheritance of God for Him to inherit God-men headed up FIRST among all other things in the universe under the Head Christ. He will not regret this arrangement because it was according to the counsel of His will.

And it was His eternal purpose brought into fuition at the fullness of the times.
He had predestinated to inherit sons under THE Son before the foundation of the world - before the creation of the universe.

So the man, was the Son perfected forever who lives ALWAYS to intercede for God's inheritance of many sons.

"For it is testified, You are a Priest forever according to the order of Melchezidek" (Heb. 7:17)

He was made this Priest "not according to a fleshy commandment but according to the power of an indestructible life." (v.16)

And He and His priesthood abide forever -

"By so much Jesus has also become the surety of a better covenant. And they are appointed priests many in number because death prevents them from continuing; But He, because He abides FOREVER, has His priesthood unalterable.. Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him since He lives always to intercede for them." (Heb. 7:22-25)

Therefore all these scriptures are referring to the same ONE person.

God is one. There is one Spirit, and there is one Son of God who became a divine life giving Spirit that the Triune God who is one might be dispensed into the sons to make them God's inheritance headed up under the perpetual Priest with an indestructible office and life.

It will be inadaquate to dismiss my reply as "waffle."
It will be inadaquate to dismiss my reply as cult leader following.
It will be inadaquate to dismiss my reply by bringing up "tortured alive forever."

@sonship said
@divegeester


Do you explain to people then that Jesus is a Priest forever but not the man as the Son of Man / Son of God forever ?

Yes, by explaining that Jesus is Jehovah in bodily form.

@divegeester

Yes, by explaining that Jesus is Jehovah in bodily form.

The resurreced man is a Priest forever. BOTH His glorified humanity and His priesthood are forever. Hebrews tells us so and Revelation shows the Priest.

"And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me; and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands. And in the midst of the lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girded about at the breats with a golden girdle." (Rev. 1:13)

This is the Son of Man as Priest tending to the churches as the priests of the OT tabernacle carried on their duties in the temple. This is the perpetual Priest as the Son of Man.

He is also Jehovah God who incarnated as a man and died and rose who lives forever.

"And His head and haird were as white as white wool, as snow; and His eyes were likea flame of fire; And His feet were like shining bronze, as having been fired in a furnace; and His voice was like the sound of many waters, and He had in His right hand seven stars; and out of His mouth proceeded a sharp two-edge sword; and His face shone as the sun shines in its power."

This is the thoroughly test God-man Jesus who walked through the burning furnce of trial in His incarnation in which

"Even though He was a Son, He learned obedience through the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, Being addressed by God as a High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek." (Heb. 5:8-10)

In this sign see what the exalted Priest says to John about Himself:

"And when I [John] saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead; and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear; I am the First and the Last and the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys od death and of Hades." (Rev. 1:17,18)

This is the eternal mingling of God and man -

1.) As Jehovah God He is "the First and the Last" (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12)

Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts,
I am the First and I am the Last,
And apart from Me there is no God."

2.) As "One like the Son of Man" He is the redsurrected and glorified human who was able to die and be raised again.

" And the living One; and I became dead, and behold I am living forever and ever . . . " (Rev. 1:18)

While it says this One God / Son of Man in glory is living forever and ever you say He is not living forever and ever in this state. You say the "One like the Son of Man" will cease to be after the millennial.

He is Jehovah God forever and ever.
He is the perfected High Priest clothed in His priestly garb forever and ever.
He is the glorified One, the Son of Man in deification Who "became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever."

@divegeester

And other posters, who propose an alternative, are demanded to to produce specific scriptural evidence of their claims!

You cannot deal with this poster - myself who demonstrates the Son of Man is a High Priest forever. He ever lives (always lives) to intercede for the saved (Heb. 7:25)

Actually you cannot deal with the New Testament itself.

People, the Bible wants us to believe that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, yes, even forever." (Heb. 13:8)

Divegeester says Jesus Christ is NOT the same . . . FOREVER.

The Bible shows the Priestly One like the Son of Man is living forever and ever (Rev. 1:18) . Divegeester thinks he can refute the revelation of an eternal Son of Man / Son of God by ghoonishly repeating that the word "trinity" isn't written in the NT.

He has made an idol out of the dogma of Unitarianism.

@sonship said
@divegeester
The specifics you won't deal with in detail.

You’ve got loads of specifics in my recent threads, all of which you pointedly ignored.

@sonship said
@divegeester

And other posters, who propose an alternative, are demanded to to produce specific scriptural evidence of their claims!

You cannot deal with this poster - myself who demonstrates the Son of Man is a High Priest forever. He ever lives (always lives) to intercede for the saved (Heb. 7:25)

Actually you cannot deal with the Ne ...[text shortened]... ord "trinity" isn't written in the NT.

He has made an idol out of the dogma of Unitarianism.

There is only one god and that god is one entity; his name is Jehovah in the Old Testament.

Jehovah came to earth in bodily form

His flesh had a beginning at his conception and his given human name is Jesus

Jesus was Jehovah in bodily form; his spirit was the spirit of Jehovah

Jesus accomplished his task as a son and returned to heaven where his flesh had been transfigured for that purpose

His spirit, the spirit of Jehovah returned to him as a whole and the position the fleshly part of him held as a son was finished with.

The son was again the father. The son “handed over all things to the father”.

None of this interferes with the deity of jesus, the lordship of jesus the names of Jesus. We still access the father through jesus because that is the given name by which we are saved.

But the essence of god is ONE. Jesus and Jehovah are the same spiritual entity. The one god.

It’s not difficult, you just don’t like it!

There is only one god and that god is one entity; his name is Jehovah in the Old Testament.

He also has the name Elohim. And he says "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness." (Gen. 1:26)

We are told latter that "[Christ] Who is the image of the invisible God . . . " (Col. 1:15)

What we should "like" is ALL of the things that the Bible says.
" . . . there is no God but one . . . " (1 Cor. 8:4)

Mysteriously the "no God but one" is Elohim as well as Jehovah. And Jehovah spoke in Genesis 3:22 another time of "Us".

"And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil . . . "

And again in Genesis 11:6,7

"And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they all have one language . . . now nothing which they purpose to do will be kept from them. Come, let Us go down and there confound their language . . . "

Yet again in the OT Jehovah God spoke of Himself as "I" and "Us" in Isaiah 6:8 when the prophet saw Jehovah in the year King Uzziah died.

"Holy, holy, holy, Jehovah of hosts. The whole earth is filled with His glory" (v.3b)''

[b]"Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send? Who will go for Us?" (v.8a)

A glimpse into the triune nature of Jehovah God is scene here in Genesis 1:26,27; 3:22; and Isaiah 6:8.

And in John 1:1 "And the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

Jehovah came to earth in bodily form

"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of an only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality." (John 1:14)

The Word Who as WITH God and WAS God was incarnated.

His flesh had a beginning at his conception and his given human name is Jesus

Yes.
And before He put on flesh the Word was with God and the Word was God.
This was the one God Who spoke "Let Us" and "Who will go for Us"{/b] and [b]"the man has become like one of Us."

Which one of the divine "Us" in these three verses was not God?

Jesus was Jehovah in bodily form; his spirit was the spirit of Jehovah

Jesus accomplished his task as a son and returned to heaven where his flesh had been transfigured for that purpose

His spirit, the spirit of Jehovah returned to him as a whole and the position the fleshly part of him held as a son was finished with.

The man Jesus had His human spirit as well as being conceived of the Holy Spirit.
And the resurrected and glorified Man is the Son of man for eternity with a dominion that is eternal according to Daniel 7.

Complain as you might it is the kingdom of "the Son of Man" that is not temporary but eternal.

"One like the Son of Man was coming; And He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before HIm. And to Him was given dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages might serve Him [the Son of Man] His dominion is an eternal dominion, which will not pass away; And His kingdm is one that will not be destroyed."

Whatever happens in the First Corinthians 15:24-28 it doesn't mean the Son of Man's dominion is taken away, or destroyed, or concluded, or cease to exist.

Though the Son show His utter subjection to the Father it is the Father's will that all things be headed up under the Son in the [plural] ages to come. Christ the Son of God / Son of Man may manifest utter subjection yet God's will is that eternal reign of the Son and the sons of God.

The [b]ages areof the millennium and eternity future. The riches of the eternal Son of Man as the Christ are for the sons' eternal enjoyment and public display. "display in the ages to come."

It is the delight of the Father unto Whom the Son manifests utter submission, that the universe forever witness the exhibition of His kindness toward the saved in Christ Jesus.

It seems your daydream that the Father would obliterate the Son. The Son is God the Son in this mysterious triunity. The Word us ever WITH God and is God.

"That He might display in the [plural] AGES to come the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." (Eph. 2:7)

The son was again the father. The son “handed over all things to the father”.

What you DON"T account for is the Father of the divine "Us" is not jealously retreiving back something stolen from Him. And though the Son "delivers up the kingdom to His God and Father . . ." the WILL of the Father in the Son's utter submission is the Son's kingdom is eternal and forever.

"But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above Your partners." (Heb. 1:8,9)

You are reading into FIrst Corinthains that the Son goes away, the partners of the son seem to be not important, and the Father is happy that the glorified Son of Man cease both to exist and His dominion be no longer that of the Son of Man.

In which case the prophet Daniel has lied.
And in which cases the Priest who is ordained to be one forever is not forever.
That would make the book of Hebrews a lie as well.

PAul "delivered"{/b] the Gospel. Yet in doing so he did not cease to be an owner of that gospel. And Christ delevering up the kingdom is not Christ no more HAVING the eternal kingdom designated to Him and the sons of God to reign with Him as partners.

Once again you fail to see the disarray in your theory that [b]sons of God reign forever and ever (Rev. 22:5) while THE SON relinquishes His "office" to no more be God-mingled with man.

You can repeat that the word "trinity" doesn't appear in the text 100 times.
No "office of the Son" is there either and not "office of the Son is no more".

It is the eternal purpose of God having an inheritance for Himself in the organic union and mingling of Himself with man that you need to see.

God will not give UP His inheritance. For He created the universe with this inheritance in mind and as His good pleasure and purpose to have.

It is a mutual inheriting. The sons inherit God as Father and their life and nature yet not His Godhead. And His being dispensed into man is His inheritance in the saints.

'In whom [Christ] also we were designated as an inheritance, having been predestinated according to the purpose of the One who works all things according to the counsel of His will." (Eph. 1:11)

The Son does not cease.
The "Son of Man" does not cease.
The Priest Who ever lives to interecede does not cease.
The Word who was with God and was God and tavbernacled among us does not ceast.

God the First and the Last of course does not cease.
And the One like the Son of Man who became dead and behold He lives forever and ever does not cease.

None of this interferes with the deity of jesus, the lordship of jesus the names of Jesus. We still access the father through jesus because that is the given name by which we are saved.

Jesus HIMSELF is the same from the resurrection, thorugh today, yes even for eternity. Jesus HIMSELF is the same.

Neither His name goes away as you seem to admit OR HIMSELF as the Son of Man and the Firstborn among many brothers passes from existence.

The latter you want to believe and repeat that "trinity" doesn't appear written in the Bible as your ground to believe a disappearing "office" of the Son of God.

The Lamb, the Redeemer, the Man who was God become a man and died and rose will not be a MEMORY but a present Person on the eternal throne forever.

"And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street." (Rev. 22:1)

The ONE throne - THE throne of God and of the Lamb is the eternal throne of the God-man. It is not just His memorial or memory that lives on. It is the Son Himself with the Father - with God and is God and from whom life pours forth as the Spirit into the city of God.