Things You'd Rather Die Than Do

Originally posted by Suzianne
Harken unto this, everyone. Here is a man who remembers when lying was equal to dishonor.

Do you think using words like "harken" somehow add authority to your posts?

Originally posted by Suzianne
This is a total straw man. If you let your family come under the control of a "radicalized terrorist" they are dead already. Do you *really* think ANYthing you say will protect them at that point? Really? It is your failure to protect them that caused them to die, not telling the truth. Get serious.

No, the scenario in play is not that they are "dead already" it is wether or not you would fake denial of Christ in order to save them. You are saying you would let them die, I say you are either a liar or you are a deluded religionist who has lost all perspective on the nature of god and the value of life.

Originally posted by Suzianne
It is in Christianity, as you well know. In fact, it is you lying to people right now saying that renouncing Christ with one's mouth has no effect. Remember Jesus telling Peter he would deny Him three times before the cock crowed. What a man says is his bond. It has consequences.

This "lying to save one's life" business is unadulterated BS. If you d ...[text shortened]... e meaning, whether or not you want to use this thinking to "absolve" yourself of responsibility.

So St. Peter was sent to hell? Come off it. Oaths sworn under duress are not oaths, and the denial of one's religion under extreme duress is not denial.

Things I'd rather die than do, well post in this thread. eek.

Originally posted by Of Ants and Imps
It is easier to simply withhold information or only give a partial answer that is correct. Where is the empirical evidence of these duress situations? The martyrs are commended for speaking the truth no matter the circumstances they were in. The evidence is in the church.

Executioner to prisoner:
If you renounce your faith you will be set free, completely. Otherwise I will burn you to death.

Prisoner:
No I'd rather die of being burned, thank you.

Or....

Prisoner:
I renounce my faith in Jesus Christ.

Executioner:
You are free to go and play with the lambs and baby tigers.


Outside with the lambs and baby tigers...

Prisoner:
Lord forgive my cowardice and could not face the flames, you know I still believe but I lacked the courage to prove the point in the face of terror.

Lord to (ex)prisoner:
Sorry dude, you're "roasty toasty", I hate cowards and although I love you my child and died for you, I'm afraid I'm now going to burn you for all eternity.

Or...

Lord to (ex)prisoner:
I forgive you, it was a tough test that few choose to take. Be at peace.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, that's not happening. Take the wedge you're trying to shove between us and "shove it". A "massive doctrinal disagreement"? So you say. I'm not as clear on what he actually said as you seem to be. I'll wait for him to tell it himself, if you don't mind.

So, more misdirection. Good job. Do you really think no one's noticed?

Suzi, rest assured that our core beliefs in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ as well as our individual desires to live life and to live it more abundantly in a manner glorifying to Him are identical. We're both also keenly aware of the fact that there are a few contributors to this spirituality forum who have no interest whatsoever in God the Father's plan to reconcile sinful mankind unto Himself; nor in Christ His uniquely born Son who was obedient in executing that plan with His spiritual death at Golgotha as a substitute for us [to satisfy the Father's Justice and Righteousness, Divine Integrity, so that there is now no longer any barrier between God and man. Christ's motivation was the love mentioned in John 3:16].

These same contributors appear to take pleasure in becoming disruptive centerpieces in otherwise worthwhile conversations for reasons known only to themselves. My own purpose/responsibility in being here is to provide accurate biblical information as opportunity is presented and to swap thoughts with friends. It is not to argue the Gospel's validity nor to win debating points or get sidetracked with false issues. The convincing ministry of the Holy Spirit will make it real and understandable to those unbelievers with positive volition. It's unlikely that we'll ever meet this side of eternity; but when we do I look forward to introducing you and Evelyn in heaven. She too is highly intelligent, objective, caring and intolerant of phony people. -Bob

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Suzi, rest assured that our core beliefs in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ as well as our individual desires to live life and to live it more abundantly in a manner glorifying to Him are identical.

Your views and Suzianne's views on "salvation" are "identical"? Are you sure?

edit: or to put it another way, in keeping with the wording of your OP, do you think that stating flatly that Suzianne's interpretation of bible doctrine regarding my "salvation" is "identical" to your interpretation of bible doctrine regarding my "salvation" [having read what she's written and what you've written on this thread, for example] might not be "misleading" on your part?

Originally posted by divegeester
Do you think using words like "harken" somehow add authority to your posts?

I'll try it at school:

"Harken class, harken!"

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Suzi, rest assured that our core beliefs in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ as well as our individual desires to live life and to live it more abundantly in a manner glorifying to Him are identical. We're both also keenly aware of the fact that there are a few contributors to this spirituality forum who have no interest whatsoever in God th ...[text shortened]... in heaven. She too is highly intelligent, objective, caring and intolerant of phony people. -Bob

Is that your best chat up line?

Originally posted by Suzianne
And just who are you to decide "what a murderer want to hear"? Murderers are sociopaths. It's likely they will kill you or your child regardless of what you say. Too bad people do not stand up for dignity anymore. Threaten someone with a gun and they turn to whimpering jelly. The world is full of pansies.

I'm sorry, but telling me I could save my child's life by telling a murderer "what they wanted to hear" is ludicrous.

And you don't understand why people call you a fundamentalist...

Originally posted by Suzianne
Murderers are sociopaths.

I missed this gem you posted previously.
Where did you get this BS from?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Suzi, rest assured that our core beliefs in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ as well as our individual desires to live life and to live it more abundantly in a manner glorifying to Him are identical. We're both also keenly aware of the fact that there are a few contributors to this spirituality forum who have no interest whatsoever in God th ...[text shortened]... in heaven. She too is highly intelligent, objective, caring and intolerant of phony people. -Bob

On the other hand you could keep a little perspective and maybe examine your slightly strange view of "providing accurate biblical interpretation".

Oh..sorry you can't can because that would mean admitting you were in error somewhere and therefore having to kill yourself.

The haughty position you a portraying here somewhat detracts from your claimed apostolic mission. Sorry.

Originally posted by divegeester
On the other hand you could keep a little perspective and maybe examine your slightly strange view of "providing accurate biblical interpretation".

Oh..sorry you can't can because that would mean admitting you were in error somewhere and therefore having to kill yourself.

The haughty position you a portraying here somewhat detracts from your claimed apostolic mission. Sorry.

At salvation we're infants who know only a thimble full of biblical truth. God expects us to grow in grace by learning the full realm of bible doctrine. That's why the Holy Spirit bestows the gift of pastor/teacher. A new believer is typically filled with appreciation and questions and eager to be taught; otherwise there's no nourishment or growth. It's a matter of priority and volition and obedience to the commands in the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Timothy 2:15).

Questions of a year ago have been answered as vocabulary and relevant frames of reference have been acquired. There are new questions today. Being taught God's Word is the primary form of worship. No one loves God as a stranger; you must first learn about Him and His Character. Personal relationship with God begins with respect and gratitude and eventuates in reverential awe and love. Epignosis in the New Testament Koine Greek means doctrine built upon doctrine [an edification complex within the soul]. I purpose to learn from the teaching of God's Word daily. Though there are no apostles in the Church Age, all believers in Christ are ambassadors for Him responsible for declaring the Gospel to an unbelieving world.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
, all believers in Christ are ambassadors for Him responsible for declaring the Gospel to an unbelieving world.

Atheists feel a similar responsibility.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
At salvation we're infants who know only a thimble full of biblical truth. God expects us to grow in grace by learning the full realm of bible doctrine.

At what point did you decide that your interpretations were correct and that you did not and could not mislead anyone on points of bible doctrine any more?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
At salvation we're infants who know only a thimble full of biblical truth. God expects us to grow in grace by learning the full realm of bible doctrine. That's why the Holy Spirit bestows the gift of pastor/teacher. A new believer is typically filled with appreciation and questions and eager to be taught; otherwise there's no nourishment or growth. It's ...[text shortened]... in Christ are ambassadors for Him responsible for declaring the Gospel to an unbelieving world.

I struggle to see what relevance this blurt has to the conversation in hand.