Torture

@sonship said
I have to consider that the Teacher of warnings of eternal punishment has a moral character which is beyond human questioning. No one can put a candle to Jesus.

You do whatever you have to do. You are
Christian. But, as far as I am concerned, Jesus is stone dead and he's been dead for 2,000 years. He isn't going to "punish" me. He isn't going to "punish" you. He isn't going to "punish" anyone, candles or no candles.

@sonship said
As a Christian I have to take into account that for God there are no such situation, being infinite in understanding. You and I as finite humans have many situations which our created human wisdom cannot handle.

Presumably your religious beliefs help you to handle moral dilemmas in connection with interactions with other people as best as you can.

@sonship said
In His whole life and especially in the Garden of Gethsemane and at Calvary Jesus took our need to be redeemed from eternal judgment too seriously for many of us to underestimate the significance of this.

This thread is not intended to about Christian doctrine regarding supernatural torture. It's intended to be about the morality of torture. What is your stance with regard to torture?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.'

Arthur C. Clarke

I'm curious to know how Clarke arrived at that conclusion and why.

The morality of the Bible is God given. If anything it(morality) has been hijacked by man to serve his own purposes.

@fmf said
Presumably your religious beliefs help you to handle moral dilemmas in connection with interactions with other people as best as you can.

That's a shallow statement considering the Bible is replete with instructions on how to interact with others in virtually all circumstances.

Nothing presumable about it.

@secondson said
That's a shallow statement considering the Bible is replete with instructions on how to interact with others in virtually all circumstances.

Nothing presumable about it.

Religious beliefs do not invariably help people to act in a morally sound way. Far from it. Saying that they presumably do in sonship's case is just being respectful.

@fmf said
This thread is not intended to about Christian doctrine regarding supernatural torture. It's intended to be about the morality of torture. What is your stance with regard to torture?

Come on FMF! Obviously sonship endorses torture. 😵

What a silly question. What do you seek to accomplish by asking it? It's a bated question which underscores your intent, and demonstrates that you are contemptuous towards those that hold to a sound biblical moral code of ethics.

What are you thinking? That sonship is a follower of Vlad the Impaler?

What in the world do you think sonship's stance on torture is?!

@fmf said
Religious beliefs do not invariably help people to act in a morally sound way. Far from it. Saying that they presumably do in sonship's case is just being respectful.

That's right. Merely claiming to believe in a moral ethic isn't enough to cause one to be moral.

It takes something more.

I don't think you're being respectful. I think you're condescending.

@secondson said
That's right. Merely claiming to believe in a moral ethic isn't enough to cause one to be moral.

It takes something more.

I don't think you're being respectful. I think you're condescending.

The guidelines that my religious beliefs gave me helped me to keep more or less on the straight and narrow for more than 25 years of adult life. Presumably, it's the same for sonship and you and divegeester and KellyJay. It's not condescending to say, not in the slightest.

@secondson said
I'm curious to know how Clarke arrived at that conclusion and why.

The morality of the Bible is God given. If anything it(morality) has been hijacked by man to serve his own purposes.

I'm sure Mr Clark had his own precise meaning, but I would suggest the exact opposite of what you posted is true. Morality 'begins' with man and then is handed over to a God of his own creation. That morality then gets put in a book and frozen in time. The result is modern man trying to live according to 'old morality' that is often irrelevant and at times detrimental. Examples would be in regards to slavery or the treatment of women. (And yes, even eternal torment).

@secondson said
Come on FMF! Obviously, sonship endorses torture. What a silly question. What do you seek to accomplish by asking it?

The exchange between sonship and me on pages 21-23 of Thread 179370 made me think it was a question worth asking and doing so without the context of Christian torturer God ideology. That's what this OP was partly inspired by. He seemed to think that I wanted people not to be tortured - humans on humans - because I find the torture ideology that he propagates to be morally incoherent. Read those pages. The question needed to be asked. And you'll note he's not answered it and he's talked about something else instead.

@secondson said
What are you thinking? That sonship is a follower of Vlad the Impaler?

What in the world do you think sonship's stance on torture is?!

I don't know what his stance on torture is. I don't know what his stances on capital and corporal punishment are either.

@SecondSon

Come on FMF! Obviously sonship endorses torture. 😵

What a silly question. What do you seek to accomplish by asking it? It's a bated question which underscores your intent, and demonstrates that you are contemptuous towards those that hold to a sound biblical moral code of ethics.

What are you thinking? That sonship is a follower of Vlad the Impaler?

What in the world do you think sonship's stance on torture is?!

This poster FMF always thinks that these kinds of gimmicks give him the upper hand in any debate.

Artificially push people's words out to the extremity for the creation of a strawman argument.

Then he valiantly knocks down his strawman thinking that he's done something great.
.

@sonship said
This poster FMF always thinks that these kinds of gimmicks give him the upper hand in any debate.

Artificially push people's words out to the extremity for the creation of a strawman argument.

Then he valiantly knocks down his strawman thinking that he's done something great.
.

The words of yours in question are on pages 21-23 of Thread 179370

@sonship said
@SecondSon

[quote] Come on FMF! Obviously sonship endorses torture. 😵

What a silly question. What do you seek to accomplish by asking it? It's a bated question which underscores your intent, and demonstrates that you are contemptuous towards those that hold to a sound biblical moral code of ethics.

What are you thinking? That sonship is a follower of Vlad the Impal ...[text shortened]... argument.

Then he valiantly knocks down his strawman thinking that he's done something great.
.

You should be aware of this sort of criticism, FMF.

One of the biggest tells on this overall strategy is your total lack of expounding on your own beliefs.

You'll gladly tell us what you don't believe in, and it fits very nicely into the default liberal, atheist, materialist perspective that is based on fulfilling a lot of the Gutmensch criteria and nothing more.

In a sense, it is its own sort of nihilism because it is not really centered around active belief in anything but a generally prevailing skepticism that cautiously approves the smallest of ethical statements and everything becomes an issue of "consenting adults," etc.