Total depravity verse list

Originally posted by @fmf
I have been reading what you have written about your Christian beliefs and responding to it. In turn, I am happy to answer questions about my agnostic atheist beliefs. Stop deflecting. Stop running away.

Running away from your little title game, when you can address another person not a title
I may be willing to talk to you. This is not a deflection, again its a rejection of your twisted
little game of dehumanizing others and place them in neat little packages you can define.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Paul was wrong about a number of things. Not only with the misogynistic views attributed to him, but also the homophobic views attributed to him.

That said, why do you put stock in any of his views?

A better question might be why don't you?

He was a passionate promoter of Jesus Christ, perhaps the most effective ever. He wrote a majority of the New Testament. I'm not an "everything or nothing" sort of person who throws the baby out with the bathwater. Most Christians understand a need for discernment in all things. Even Martin Luther King, Jr. was accused of running around on his wife, having affairs and perhaps even fathering illegitimate children. None of this diminishes his message of love and tolerance. Paul was wrong about many things, but he was also right about many things.

We are all human, and as such, we are fallible. We cannot and should not rummage through a person's life work and notice the rust and the dirt and then call it all refuse and trash, ignoring the diamonds hidden therein. My fallibility is that I am highly skeptical of a lot of what Paul says because of his fallibility.

Originally posted by @suzianne
A better question might be why don't you?

He was a passionate promoter of Jesus Christ, perhaps the most effective ever. He wrote a majority of the New Testament. I'm not an "everything or nothing" sort of person who throws the baby out with the bathwater. Most Christians understand a need for discernment in all things. Even Martin Luther King, Jr. ...[text shortened]... fallibility is that I am highly skeptical of a lot of what Paul says because of his fallibility.

Well said.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Running away from your little title game, when you can address another person not a title I may be willing to talk to you. This is not a deflection, again its a rejection of your twisted little game of dehumanizing others and place them in neat little packages you can define.

"Dehumanizing"?

What twisted kind of deflection is this you are now moving on to?

All I did was ask you about things you claimed regarding your belief in Jesus.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
No, I think you are a blind man that only sees people in the little boxes you have assigned
to them and yourself. You don't see people, you see your titles.

So what's wrong with you giving yourself the title Christian? What's wrong with me giving myself the title agnostic atheist? What on earth are you harping on about?

Originally posted by @fmf
"Dehumanizing"?

What twisted kind of deflection is this you are now moving on to?

All I did was ask you about things you claimed regarding your belief in Jesus.

You reduce people into the boxes your titles infer which removes anything outside of your definition. You take away complex nature which we all share for your labels sake.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You reduce people into the boxes your titles infer which removes anything outside of your definition.

No, I do not

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You take away complex nature which we all share for your labels sake.

I've been asking you personally about the complex nature of what you personally believe and you have been deflecting and running away. You have brought up this blatant red herring thing about "titles" and "labels", not me.

Originally posted by @fmf
I've been asking you personally about the complex nature of what you personally believe and you have been deflecting and running away. You have brought up this blatant red herring thing about "titles" and "labels", not me.

Go back and read your words you have been addressing me as a Christian and your rationale for not responding to my queries about what you used to believe for 30 years is your new title/label. You have even boxed yourself into behaviors due to your methods of viewing people!

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Go back and read your words you have been addressing me as a Christian and your rationale for not responding to my queries about what you used to believe for 30 years is your new title/label. You have even boxed yourself into behaviors due to your methods of viewing people!

He sits back and demands others answer his question but refuses to answer questions asked of him.

Long ago I told him to not bother asking questions of me and go bounce his ball in another location.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Go back and read your words you have been addressing me as a Christian... etc.etc. blah blah blah[see above]

But you are a Christian, KellyJay, and I am not. And it's about your Christian beliefs that I am engaging you. Meanwhile, I am an atheist and I am perfectly willing to be engaged on my beliefs. But you are deflecting, And running away.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
...your rationale for not responding to my queries about what you used to believe for 30 years is your new title/label.

My past beliefs - things I do not believe anymore - are not my current beliefs. I am not a Christian. I am interested in your current beliefs. The answers to my questions about your current beliefs will not be found among things that I no longer believe. I am perfectly willing to answer your questions on my current beliefs - not only with regard to me - but also with regard to Christianity.

Originally posted by @fmf
But you are a Christian, KellyJay, and I am not. And it's about your Christian beliefs that I am engaging you. Meanwhile, I am an atheist and I am perfectly willing to be engaged on my beliefs. But you are deflecting, And running away.

Stick to your labels, you will miss so much predefining everyone by your preconceived ideas of what each label means. When they say and do things it will always be in the light of your labels not necessarily what is being said to you. If you notice others getting frustrated talking to you, I imagine that will be why. You don’t hear what is being said to you, instead you translate to fit your assumptions.

Originally posted by @fmf
My past beliefs - things I do not believe anymore - are not my current beliefs. I am not a Christian. I am interested in your current beliefs. The answers to my questions about your current beliefs will not be found among things that I no longer believe. I am perfectly willing to answer your questions on my current beliefs - not only with regard to me - but also with regard to Christianity.

Do not care about your current beliefs can not stress that enough. I asked about your past beliefs.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Do not care about your current beliefs can not stress that enough. I asked about your past beliefs.

You are not doing yourself credit with this evasion. It is so obvious that you are using it as a deflection tactic that it is embarrassing for you. You should take the two things separately; I.e. answer his question directly and then ask what FMF thought about the topic when he was a believer, but as a side topic.

That is my honest POV.