Total depravity verse list

Originally posted by @kellyjay
So you reject scripture because Paul wrote it?

Did I say that I reject scripture "because Paul wrote it"?

You, like so many others on this forum, read what others say and then assert that it says something that it doesn't say. See if you can summon up a little intellectual honesty and try addressing what I actually wrote instead of creating a straw man.

Originally posted by @suzianne
A better question might be why don't you?

He was a passionate promoter of Jesus Christ, perhaps the most effective ever. He wrote a majority of the New Testament. I'm not an "everything or nothing" sort of person who throws the baby out with the bathwater. Most Christians understand a need for discernment in all things. Even Martin Luther King, Jr. ...[text shortened]... fallibility is that I am highly skeptical of a lot of what Paul says because of his fallibility.

He was a passionate promoter of Jesus Christ, perhaps the most effective ever.

Unfortunately he wasn't a " passionate promoter" of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. Rather, Paul preached a gospel ABOUT Jesus.

A better question might be why don't you?

How exactly is that a "better question"? Why place the gospel preached by Paul above the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry? The gospel preached by Jesus is reasonably sound and reasonably coherent. The gospel preached by Paul does not echo the gospel preached by Jesus and often deviates from it.

You seem to have a problem with many of the beliefs of the "Christian right". You should ask yourself how many of those beliefs are derived from the gospel preached by Jesus.

Then ask yourself how many are derived from the gospel preached by Paul.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Really how many times were you speaking to me directly as you were defending yourself?

What? How does this address my post?

I talk llike I do in real life so I can weed out the idiots and protect myself . I have no need to be defensive .
You question my integrity repeatedly and I repeatedly humour you.

But you are a mere religious slug aroung here. You repeatedly show you know zip about spirituality .
I'm wasting my time responding to your posts

Originally posted by @kellyjay
What claims were you going after when you said those things?

The same ones Rajk goes after. The false ones

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
The same ones Rajk goes after. The false ones

ROFL okay, if you think he is also going down the path you think is a good one, go but
when you both fall in the ditch, its on you.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
What? How does this address my post?

I talk llike I do in real life so I can weed out the idiots and protect myself . I have no need to be defensive .
You question my integrity repeatedly and I repeatedly humour you.

But you are a mere religious slug aroung here. You repeatedly show you know zip about spirituality .
I'm wasting my time responding to your posts

Your integrity, nope don't question it. Feel free to not respond to my posts, if R gives you
a light to walk in nothing I say to you is going to be heard.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Did I say that I reject scripture "because Paul wrote it"?

You, like so many others on this forum, read what others say and then assert that it says something that it doesn't say. See if you can summon up a little intellectual honesty and try addressing what I actually wrote instead of creating a straw man.

Well if you are questioning what Paul wrote in one place!?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Well if you are questioning what Paul wrote in one place!?

I have no idea what your post is asking. It doesn't make any sense. It's just word salad.

If you have points to make about my earlier post, then plainly state them. You know, actually formulate a cogent argument that has intellectual honesty as its foundation.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
I have no idea what your post is asking. It doesn't make any sense. It's just word salad.

If you have points to make about my earlier post, then plainly state them. You know, actually formulate a cogent argument that has intellectual honesty as its foundation.

It may have been word salad to you but it seems to me and I think I join KJ on this, that you reject the teachings of Paul. That's your prerogative but just that very fact leads you inexorably down a slippery slope where, at the bottom, you lie in a pile of "red letter Christians"; essentially a professed believer that embraces Liberal Christian Theology. Liberal Christian Theology is a heresy and people like KJ, me, and others recoil at the very thought of it. It's no better than New Age philosophy.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Paul was wrong about a number of things. Not only with the misogynistic views attributed to him, but also the homophobic views attributed to him.

That said, why do you put stock in any of his views?

If you don’t trust Paul everywhere why do you trust him at all?

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
It may have been word salad to you but it seems to me and I think I join KJ on this, that you reject the teachings of Paul. That's your prerogative but just that very fact leads you inexorably down a slippery slope where, at the bottom, you lie in a pile of "red letter Christians"; essentially a professed believer that embraces Liberal Christian Theolog ...[text shortened]... ke KJ, me, and others recoil at the very thought of it. It's no better than New Age philosophy.

Interesting how modern Christianity has reached the stage where they now laugh at, mock and ridicule the teachings of Christ with impunity. You think Jesus would have guessed that his doctrine would have been dragged through the gutter by the very same people who profess to believe in him?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
If you don’t trust Paul everywhere why do you trust him at all?

Do you condemn Suzainne's condemnation of Paul pertaining to women in the church?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
If you don’t trust Paul everywhere why do you trust him at all?

If that's your point, then you should take it up with Suzianne.

If your reading comprehension were better, you might realize that it is Suzianne who doesn't "trust Paul everywhere", YET trusts him in other places. You might also realize that that's the question I was asking of Suzianne, though I suspect for very different reasons.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
It may have been word salad to you but it seems to me and I think I join KJ on this, that you reject the teachings of Paul. That's your prerogative but just that very fact leads you inexorably down a slippery slope where, at the bottom, you lie in a pile of "red letter Christians"; essentially a professed believer that embraces Liberal Christian Theolog ...[text shortened]... ke KJ, me, and others recoil at the very thought of it. It's no better than New Age philosophy.

I fully understand that you embrace the views of the "Christian right" which are largely antithetical to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

John 5
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 25“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26“For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


John 12
46“I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. 47“If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49“For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50“I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”


Matthew 6
19“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20“But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22“The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. 23“But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
24“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Stick to your labels, you will miss so much predefining everyone by your preconceived ideas of what each label means.

I have asked you questions specifically and explicitly about the content of what you posted. You are defined - not predefined - by what you post. The only person wittering on about "labels" is you.