Truth .. JW Style

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
What is it you are yet failing to understand, yes Christ is the fulfilment of the Mosaic Law, however, the principles, as reiterated in hundreds of instances in the recorded word of God, to the first century Christians, are still valid! unless of course you wish to argue that stealing, murdering, coveting, dishonouring ones parents etc etc are no longer valid!

if your family is starving to death is it okay to steal a loaf of bread?

Hebrews 10 grants a moral realism (as opposed to moral relativism), it allows for us to change our understanding of the scripture (new light) as our understanding of the world changes.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we are slaves of Christ, i deny your appellation of cult.

I deny your accusation of corruption

Originally posted by duecer
if your family is starving to death is it okay to steal a loaf of bread?

Hebrews 10 grants a moral realism (as opposed to moral relativism), it allows for us to change our understanding of the scripture (new light) as our understanding of the world changes.

utterly twisted reasoning, for David himself states,

(Psalm 37:25) . . .A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, And yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, Nor his offspring looking for bread.

are you saying that God is unable to look after his servants? that his hand is stingy? hardly an inducement for putting right principles first is it? If your conscience allows you to contravene the word of God then that is your affair, ours doesn't.

Originally posted by duecer
I deny your accusation of corruption

actually Deucer i am now past the point of caring, to be honest. You are at liberty to say, act and think along with the dictates of your conscience, we of course have recourse to the same..

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
utterly twisted reasoning, for David himself states,

(Psalm 37:25) . . .A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, And yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, Nor his offspring looking for bread.

are you saying that God is unable to look after his servants? that his hand is stingy? hardly an inducement for putting right pri ...[text shortened]... our conscience allows you to contravene the word of God then that is your affair, ours doesn't.

you still have not refuted my claim on Hebrews 10, and btw in what way did I twist that passage?

are you saying that God is unable to look after his servants? that his hand is stingy?

a few points on this

1. 2 billion people in this world live on $2 a day or less, literally millions of people starve to death every year. God isn't sending them manna, so how are they to eat?

2. If the JW's put as much effeort into feeding the hungry (also the Lords work) as they do pestering people in their homes, world hunger could be allieviated

Originally posted by duecer
you still have not refuted my claim on Hebrews 10, and btw in what way did I twist that passage?

[b]are you saying that God is unable to look after his servants? that his hand is stingy?

a few points on this

1. 2 billion people in this world live on $2 a day or less, literally millions of people starve to death every year. God isn't sending the the Lords work) as they do pestering people in their homes, world hunger could be allieviated[/b]

actually we follow the example of Christ who spent his time helping people spiritually, you know, the Kingdom of God, any of that ringing a bell? these other humanitarian works were of a secondary nature.

Perhaps if you spent less time bribing people into your churches with bowls of rice, you might actually help them help themselves!

what claim about Hebrews ten?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I hope your referring to this post, if not I'll ask you to repost it so I know what
you want.


If it is this post:

I'm in agreement with you that I would not deny BT for a life saving procedure.
I again go back to the point about forcing someone to do something against their
will. I don't have to like it, but choices are made all the time that I d ...[text shortened]... lso put the populace at
risk, and in some cases we celebrate some of these actions.
Kelly

You found the correct post, though I wish you had addressed the logical inconsistency in your position rather than restating your position.

You keep bringing up abortion which is a different issue and should be judged on its own. Regardless, it points out another logical inconsistency in your position. You agree that you would not fail to see why everyone here would be upset with a parent who would murder their child even though you seemingly equate abortion with a parent murdering their child. Why does this not extend to a parent who would deny their child a medical procedure necessary to the child's life which is tantamount to murder? To be logically consistent you should also fail to see why everyone here would be upset with a parent who would murder their child when as you say, "we allow the unborn to be killed off daily and masses of them die all the
time." But evidently you don't. Why is that?

You also keep bringing up forcing someone to go against his belief. Why is that relevant? Would you similarly fail to see why everyone here would be upset with a parent who would murder their child because they believed that God commanded it?

Originally posted by KellyJay
The Bible addresses food so blood pudding would be covered, it talks about wars,
it talks about medical practices, it talks about saving lives and ending them, it talks
about doing the right thing, and so on. You are still applying a matter of food to
medical practices it is a reach as far as I'm concern. It talks about life being in the
blood, and the ...[text shortened]... blical since you are making two things related that have nothing to do with
each other.
Kelly

...like I have pointed out to others here if you are fully persuaded you must continue the practice or you will be sinning if you go against your conscious...

Do you really believe this? Seems like "sin" is a matter of going against righteousness rather than going against one’s conscience. From what I've seen, for a large number of individuals, there is a wide gap between the two.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
actually we follow the example of Christ who spent his time helping people spiritually, you know, the Kingdom of God, any of that ringing a bell? these other humanitarian works were of a secondary nature.

Perhaps if you spent less time bribing people into your churches with bowls of rice, you might actually help them help themselves!

what claim about Hebrews ten?

Really? I'll come back to this "helping people spiritualy buzniz in a bit but first:

Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand
13When Jesus heard what had happened, he withdrew by boat privately to a solitary place. Hearing of this, the crowds followed him on foot from the towns. 14When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them and healed their sick.
15As evening approached, the disciples came to him and said, "This is a remote place, and it's already getting late. Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food."

16Jesus replied, "They do not need to go away. You give them something to eat."

17"We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish," they answered.

18"Bring them here to me," he said. 19And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people. 20They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over. 21The number of those who ate was about five thousand men, besides women and children.

Jesus personally ensures the crowd is fed. sounds like he thought that was important

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
actually we follow the example of Christ who spent his time helping people spiritually, you know, the Kingdom of God, any of that ringing a bell? these other humanitarian works were of a secondary nature.

Perhaps if you spent less time bribing people into your churches with bowls of rice, you might actually help them help themselves!

what claim about Hebrews ten?

now this stuff about helping spiritually. In Matthew 10 (look see what I did there I referenced the bible AGAIN) when Jesus sent the 12 out to preach, specifically says this:
Whatever town or village you enter, search for some worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave. 12As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.


why then do JW's return to homes and nieghborhoods where they have clearly been told they are unwelcome? Are they not obedient to God's word?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie



what claim about Hebrews ten?

That Christ is the fulfillment of levitical law.

you wrote: What is it you are yet failing to understand, yes Christ is the fulfilment of the Mosaic Law, however, the principles, as reiterated in hundreds of instances in the recorded word of God, to the first century Christians, are still valid! unless of course you wish to argue that stealing, murdering, coveting, dishonouring ones parents etc etc are no longer valid!


to which I replied: Hebrews 10 grants a moral realism (as opposed to moral relativism), it allows for us to change our understanding of the scripture (new light) as our understanding of the world changes.

to which then you replied with a nonsensical unrelated passage and have yet to address my point...which still stands

Originally posted by duecer
Really? I'll come back to this "helping people spiritualy buzniz in a bit but first:

Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand
13When Jesus heard what had happened, he withdrew by boat privately to a solitary place. Hearing of this, the crowds followed him on foot from the towns. 14When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them and healed their ...[text shortened]... us personally ensures the crowd is fed. sounds like he thought that was important[/b]

i did not say that it was not important, i simply stated that his work was primarily to teach others about the Kingdom of God. He was after all, not known as a chef, nor even a miracle worker, but a teacher!

Originally posted by duecer
now this stuff about helping spiritually. In Matthew 10 (look see what I did there I referenced the bible AGAIN) when Jesus sent the 12 out to preach, specifically says this:
Whatever town or village you enter, search for some worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave. 12As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13If the home is deserving where they have clearly been told they are unwelcome? Are they not obedient to God's word?[/b]

i have never returned to a house where i have been told that i am not welcome, in fact, we keep a record of persons who do not want us to visit them and make a point of strictly adhering to that! Actually there are far too many mannerly people who although disinterested admire our work to be bothered with the haters. I find that most people who are well educated and mannerly have no problem with our visits. Your next duff point please!

Originally posted by duecer
That Christ is the fulfillment of levitical law.

you wrote: What is it you are yet failing to understand, yes Christ is the fulfilment of the Mosaic Law, however, the principles, as reiterated in hundreds of instances in the recorded word of God, to the first century Christians, are still valid! unless of course you wish to argue that stealing, murdering, ...[text shortened]... plied with a nonsensical unrelated passage and have yet to address my point...which still stands

i have nothing to say in regard to your moral realism nor moral relativism, the word of God is complete and endures forever regardless of your moral preferences Indeed it is the beauty of principles in that they are not bound nor constrained by time, nor fashion, nor your moral fads! Watering down the word of God so that it is palatable to liberals and secularists is the work of the churches, Christ aptly stated of you, they are lukewarm, and like like warm water which can refresh nobody, must be spat out!

(Revelation 3:15-16) . . .‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot.  So, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth.

yes lets all pander to the morality of the world! NOT!

Originally posted by duecer
Hebrews 10 grants a moral realism (as opposed to moral relativism), it allows for us to change our understanding of the scripture (new light) as our understanding of the world changes.

I have to say, I really don't agree with this; not that our human 'understanding' of scripture cannot change, but the implication being observed here, that the truth contained therein can.