28 Sep 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneBig fan you know
Are you trying to claim that you are being slandered?
If so it's yet another dishonest tactic by you.
You are what are. You are a liar as I clearly showed earlier in the thread.
Do you really think that you change this fact through your continued use of dishonest tactics?
If you ever wonder why so many dislike JWs and/or Christians it is because they encounter people like you.
(Proverbs 12:18) . . .There exists the one speaking thoughtlessly as with the stabs of a sword, but the tongue of the wise ones is a healing.
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28 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75You are being factual? You know for a fact that if Jesus were to return, Catholics would be extremely mad and attack him? I have already established you possess less than a satisfactory knowledge of Catholicism and I doubt you could offer any plausible prognostication of how Catholics would behave.
No I'm being factual. And what does the many hours in front of the tabernacle accomplish?
I don't argue that sitting in front of the tabernacle accomplishes anything. What I said is that it showed their love of Jesus. If these people are prepared to spend hours sitting in front of the tabernacle, simply out of their conviction that Jesus is fully present, how can you say that they do not love him? How are they substantially different from Mary (Luke 10:38-42)?
28 Sep 10
Matthew 12:47-52 (King James Version)
47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by tacoandlettuceok, lets bring this up to the 21st century rather than the fifteenth, shall we,
Matthew 12:47-52 (King James Version)
47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
...[text shortened]... all do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
(Matthew 12:47-50) . . .So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” As an answer he said to the one telling him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: “Look! My mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
🙂
28 Sep 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI thank you, but, you do not find what the King James orig. expresses to be self explanatory?
ok, lets bring this up to the 21st century rather than the fifteenth, shall we,
(Matthew 12:47-50) . . .So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” As an answer he said to the one telling him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And extending his hand toward his disciples ...[text shortened]... s the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
🙂
28 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau KAgain a fact that I have stated many, many times is a vast number of JW's have come from other religions and as the Catholic religion being the largest, most JW's that have come from other religions have come from there.
You are being factual? You know for a fact that if Jesus were to return, Catholics would be extremely mad and attack him? I have already established you possess less than a satisfactory knowledge of Catholicism and I doubt you could offer any plausible prognostication of how Catholics would behave.
I don't argue that sitting in front of the tabernacle a ...[text shortened]... say that they do not love him? How are they substantially different from Mary (Luke 10:38-42)?
So again I can speak with full honesty as to many I know personally and heard with my own ears what they have told me. You may think you know the Catholic religion but for one who does not believe in God and who is not a Catholic, I'm afraid I have a better and honest view of what they believe on such issues as the Pope on a ground level. I know how they behave and feel as I have heard and seen it for myself.
You can spit and sputter all you want but sorry.
You may know more of the letter of what Catholics are supposed to believe and do and act but that is not the real world.
And the clear point I'm making is this token worship and admiration that the Catholics spend their time on is just that, a token, no matter how good they are.
They have nothing to do with the commands Jesus gave to do a serious preaching and teaching work worldwide. Period.
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28 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75So again I can speak with full honesty as to many I know personally and heard with my own ears what they have told me. You may think you know the Catholic religion but for one who does not believe in God and who is not a Catholic, I'm afraid I have a better and honest view of what they believe on such issues as the Pope on a ground level. I know how they behave and feel as I have heard and seen it for myself.
Again a fact that I have stated many, many times is a vast number of JW's have come from other religions and as the Catholic religion being the largest, most JW's that have come from other religions have come from there.
So again I can speak with full honesty as to many I know personally and heard with my own ears what they have told me. You may think ...[text shortened]... with the commands Jesus gave to do a serious preaching and teaching work worldwide. Period.
I don't care what you have heard. I have been a Catholic. I have studied the catechism. Three of my best friends are priests, another is a seminarian who just met the Pope. I have friends who teach theology at Catholic universities. Gosh, I could go on forever. I have had regular contact with several parishes and for some period I was a candidate in a religious order. I think I know a bit more about Catholicism than you. Whatever Catholics you have met, and I doubt that they in the hundreds as you claim, they are not representative nor are they very credible witnesses of what Catholics believe.
And the clear point I'm making is this token worship and admiration that the Catholics spend their time on is just that, a token, no matter how good they are.
They have nothing to do with the commands Jesus gave to do a serious preaching and teaching work worldwide. Period.
Whatever. Of course you would claim that. Nonetheless, whether you believe that Catholics are right, whether you believe that they follow the commandments of Jesus, I don't think you can justifiably say that they lack any love of Jesus. Your dismissal of their devotions as a 'token' is just so narrow-minded. There are Catholics who spend hours in prayer a day, are willing to commit themselves to chastity, poverty and obedience, work for the poor and preach each day. How can you say that they would kill Jesus?
29 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau Kactually Conrau you are being unreasonable here, for the statistics tell a very different story, for example in Mexico there are around 2 million Witnesses, many of whom were former Catholics, indeed some of the most extensive growth that we have had has been from predominately Catholic areas.
So again I can speak with full honesty as to many I know personally and heard with my own ears what they have told me. You may think you know the Catholic religion but for one who does not believe in God and who is not a Catholic, I'm afraid I have a better and honest view of what they believe on such issues as the Pope on a ground level. I know how they dience, work for the poor and preach each day. How can you say that they would kill Jesus?[/b]
29 Sep 10
Originally posted by Conrau KDid I ever say they didn't love Jesus?????? Don't think I ever did.
[b]So again I can speak with full honesty as to many I know personally and heard with my own ears what they have told me. You may think you know the Catholic religion but for one who does not believe in God and who is not a Catholic, I'm afraid I have a better and honest view of what they believe on such issues as the Pope on a ground level. I know how they ...[text shortened]... dience, work for the poor and preach each day. How can you say that they would kill Jesus?
And someday you should take a trip to the SW part of the US and observe the Cathoilics, especially the Latino population. I think you'll get an eye opening experiance on their form of worship they do and if not correct by your definition of true Catholic worshipping rules, it seems to not be corrected by the Vatican. Why is that?
29 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75Notice the 5th paragraph in this article.....
Did I ever say they didn't love Jesus?????? Don't think I ever did.
And someday you should take a trip to the SW part of the US and observe the Cathoilics, especially the Latino population. I think you'll get an eye opening experiance on their form of worship they do and if not correct by your definition of true Catholic worshipping rules, it seems to not be corrected by the Vatican. Why is that?
http://pewforum.org/Changing-Faiths-Latinos-and-the-Transformation-of-American-Religion.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charisma
Is this ok with the Vatican?
29 Sep 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI get it you don't want to be bothered.
reading between the lines Kelly i hope you discerned that what i am really saying is, i cannot be bothered arguing any more with persons who cannot see beyond the literal, or rather, who refuse to see beyond the literal. It takes reasoning and discernment to think about a principle and how it applies to various circumstances and the admonition is clear, abstain from blood.
I was giving you the "princible", I acknowledged what you were saying as
something I can respect; however, I too was presenting you "princibles" which
you never once addressed. So the only thing I get from our exchange is that you
want to tell me what is true and not be bothered being questioned. So state your
position and live or die with it, completely up to you. You could have just said
I don't care what you think this is what I'm going to accept as truth and not
pretend to be in a discussion we would have gotten to this place much quicker.
Kelly
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29 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI haven't denied growth. In fact, in South America there is massive exodus from the Church. Many Protestant churches have swelled. This is largely because of diminishing clergy numbers combined with a greater evangelical campaign from other churches. How does this bear on the present discussion?
actually Conrau you are being unreasonable here, for the statistics tell a very different story, for example in Mexico there are around 2 million Witnesses, many of whom were former Catholics, indeed some of the most extensive growth that we have had has been from predominately Catholic areas.
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29 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75Did I ever say they didn't love Jesus?????? Don't think I ever did.
Did I ever say they didn't love Jesus?????? Don't think I ever did.
And someday you should take a trip to the SW part of the US and observe the Cathoilics, especially the Latino population. I think you'll get an eye opening experiance on their form of worship they do and if not correct by your definition of true Catholic worshipping rules, it seems to not be corrected by the Vatican. Why is that?
Yes. Firstly you asked whether Catholics would even gather to meet Jesus, implying that they love the Pope more. You then said that they would be mad if Jesus returned and would try to kill him.
I think you'll get an eye opening experiance on their form of worship they do and if not correct by your definition of true Catholic worshipping rules, it seems to not be corrected by the Vatican. Why is that?
We haven't discussed worship but I don't deny that liturgical abuse happens. The Holy See has several times issued warnings to churches, from Australia to South America. No doubt it is a problem. Of course, the Vatican isn't aware of every liturgical abuse and what you might consider liturgical abuse might not be in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
29 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau KWell a couple points here. Jesus's commands would not change and he would still preach the same message now as then because the preaching work has not come to a complition yet. So as the Catholics have not and seemingly never will do this work by all it's members. So the work Jesus said to do would not be accepted by the Catholics now.
[b]Did I ever say they didn't love Jesus?????? Don't think I ever did.
Yes. Firstly you asked whether Catholics would even gather to meet Jesus, implying that they love the Pope more. You then said that they would be mad if Jesus returned and would try to kill him.
I think you'll get an eye opening experiance on their form of worship they do an what you might consider liturgical abuse might not be in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
But that's one of many points that Jesus would never accept the Catholic religion and in turn they would not take too kindly to Jesus once he pointed out those problems, such as idolitry.
But it's not just the Catholics that would have major problems with Jesus's words.
So the other point is the unity the Catholics and other religions don't have. But Paul said that "unity" is the one identifying marks that would show who truly are the followers of truth.
1 Cor 1:10