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30 Sep 19
You seem to be addressing me as if I am saying
I'm looking for the truth.
Maybe you can say something about it.
The truth is that people can have strong beliefs about things not true.
Yet people can also have strong beliefs about this which are absolutely true.
That's pretty much the end of the matter for me here.
~ or as if I have EVER even once stated, in twelve years of engaging
I don't think a history is necessary.
I have no expectation of forcing anyone to believe what I believe.
The cage door is wide open. You don't have to believe in Christ.
I'm happy at the truth of the matter.
Strong certainty can be concerning subject things which are not absolutely true.
And strong certainty can be had concerning subjective things which are also absolutely true.
Good enough.
you ~ that the stuff you believe in cannot be true. Read what I post, sonship. Read the thread.
That argument you have never made successfully that "the stuff" I believe "cannot be true".
Strong certainty can be had about what cannot be true.
And strong certainty can be had about things which certainly CAN be true.
Sure God can be true.
Sure the Son of God died, risen from the dead and Lord of all can be true.
"It cannot be true" is your hope, your leap of desire.
My aim here is met.
Subjectivity in relativism doesn't bury the object of my faith and experience as ipso facto purely my imagination.
Truth can be very subjective and absolutely universally true too. That's all.
30 Sep 19
@sonship saidHave you read the thread? Which bits of this latest stuff you've typed do you think disputes or confronts my stance on subjectivity v objectivity regarding supernatural things?
@FMF
You seem to be addressing me as if I am saying
I'm looking for the truth.
Maybe you can say something about it.
The truth is that people can have strong beliefs about things not true.
Yet people can also have strong beliefs about this which are absolutely true.
That's pretty much the end of the matter for me here.
[quote]
~ or as if I have ...[text shortened]... nation.
Truth can be very subjective and absolutely universally true too. That's all.
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30 Sep 19
3 edits
@FMF
That's right, quiz me.
Maybe I won't see the forest for the trees.
Maybe you can get me bogged down in minutia.
It is possible that sincere certainty of belief be held about that which is absolutely true.
Sincere belief is not automatically subjective self deception - always.
30 Sep 19
@sonship saidSincere belief in supernatural phenomena and beings, by its very unprovable and speculative nature, is always going to be subjective. The same goes for my opinion about the subjectivity of your belief in supernatural phenomena and beings.
Sincere belief is not automatically subjective self deception - always.
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@fmf saidWell you could say the same about gravity and anything else for that matter depending on how you define ‘subjective’.
Sincere belief in supernatural phenomena and beings, by its very unprovable and speculative nature, is always going to be subjective. The same goes for my opinion about the subjectivity of your belief in supernatural phenomena and beings.
There may well be more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the existence of gravity. But you will choose to believe in gravity and not in God because you have a choice and not because of a lack of evidence.
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Sincere belief in supernatural phenomena and beings, by its very unprovable and speculative nature,
Are all things unprovable, by nature false and cannot be true?
Can you prove that the universe is not fifteen minutes old ? I do not mean that you, me, and everybody else practically, sincerely believes that the universe is not fifteen minutes old. I mean PROVE IT with undoubtable mathematical precision.
How can you prove it?
is always going to be subjective. The same goes for my opinion about the subjectivity of your belief in supernatural phenomena and beings.
I find the reasonable that whoever had the power and authority to create the universe out of nothing should, IF that One so desire, to perform a supernatural event of some OTHER type.
I think I am on the right track, to believe that the Man Christ Jesus is a reasonable candidate for being God become a man.
The second or third most reasonable candidates for that possible identity come nowhere close.
It may not be believable that any average Jewish man of 33 years of age on any given day might rise from being dead.
I deem it believable that someone who spoke as Jesus spoke and lived as Jesus lived might conceivably demonstrate supernatural victory over death.
30 Sep 19
@dj2becker saidYour speculation that "There may well be more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the existence of gravity" is your subjective personal opinion.
Well you could say the same about gravity and anything else for that matter depending on how you define ‘subjective’.
There may well be more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the existence of gravity. But you will choose to believe in gravity and not in God because you have a choice and not because of a lack of evidence.
30 Sep 19
@sonship saidOh for goodness sake, sonship. Just read the thread. I have not said that all things unprovable, by nature, are false and cannot be true. I've said nothing like it. Read the thread. Your opinions and speculations about all things unprovable ~ regarding things like supernatural causality, divine will etc. ~ are, by their nature, subjective.
Are all things unprovable, by nature false and cannot be true?
30 Sep 19
@sonship said"It cannot be true" is your hope, your leap of desire.you ~ that the stuff you believe in cannot be true. Read what I post, sonship. Read the thread.
That argument you have never made successfully that "the stuff" I believe "cannot be true".
Strong certainty can be had about what cannot be true.
And strong certainty can be had about things which certainly CAN be true.
Sure God can be true.
Sure th ...[text shortened]... the dead and Lord of all can be true.
"It cannot be true" is your hope, your leap of desire.
Except, I am not saying "It cannot be true", sonship. You had to carefully omit the first part of my sentence in order to pretend that I was saying that. Go back and read the whole sentence.
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01 Oct 19
Except, I am not saying "It cannot be true", sonship. You had to carefully omit the first part of my sentence in order to pretend that I was saying that. Go back and read the whole sentence.
The "whole sentence"
You seem to be addressing me as if I am saying ~ or as if I have EVER even once stated, in twelve years of engaging you ~ that the stuff you believe in cannot be true. Read what I post, sonship. Read the thread.
In twelve years you never said that the stuff I believe in cannot be true.
My error. No "pretending".