02 Dec 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydYes on both questions it is.
Yes.
Yes.
Why then are there christians who take creationism so seriously so they use the word 'evolutionist' as a pejoriative description of non-believers even if they are christians? Why are they so threatened by people who see evolution as the finest and most brilliant part of gods creation? Why do some people deny evolution, and all science that follows, that they go agressive with it? I don't understand...
02 Dec 08
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Originally posted by epiphinehasA big Amen.
[b]t is this appeal which the Christian tries to emulate to the best of his ability, based on his knowledge of Christs teachings that may determine whether he is a christian or not, for to be sure, others also may possess and display these qualities naturally...
Are you suggesting that an individual can be a follower of Christ without the empowerm , faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law" (Galatians 5:22-23).[/b]
02 Dec 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydI thought that was primarily the view of Calvinism, not Lutheran.
There's a lot of talk here of what one must do to be a Christian (accept Chirst as personal savior,...), but the Lutheran perspective is that our salvation is NOT something that we have any control of. It is Jesus who chooses US, not the other way 'round.
I do not purport to understand it; just reporting the facts as I've been taught them.
I thought the Lutheran view was that salvation came from faith and calvinism was the specification of predestination?
02 Dec 08
Originally posted by PsychoPawnSalvation comes from Jesus. That's the bottom line.
I thought that was primarily the view of Calvinism, not Lutheran.
I thought the Lutheran view was that salvation came from faith and calvinism was the specification of predestination?
I'm sure brother Calvin and brother Luther would agree on that.
02 Dec 08
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Originally posted by jaywillThere is also the tribulation belief that the righteous will be taken, and
If you've heard it before you can just groan or smile.
Some are pre-tribulation. Some are post-tribulation. Some are mid-tribulation.
I recommend you be pan tribulation. If you trust in Jesus everything will [b]pan out alright.[/b]
a tribulation belief that the wicked will be taken too. My belief is if
you are not ready to meet God when you die, so what does it matter
if your beliefs about the tribulation reflect reality or not?
Kelly
02 Dec 08
Originally posted by jaywillAnd here I thought the Tribulation was a newspapaer in Chicago.
If you've heard it before you can just groan or smile.
Some are pre-tribulation. Some are post-tribulation. Some are mid-tribulation.
I recommend you be pan tribulation. If you trust in Jesus everything will [b]pan out alright.[/b]
But, okay okay: I was already chuckling through the groans at the phrase "pan tribulation"...
02 Dec 08
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Originally posted by jaywillbrother Calvin? brother Calvin? a murdering blackguard more like, just ask Michael Servetus, plus his legacy still lives on in the Scottish islands, those of a Calvinistic disposition sternly warn us drinking and dancing, its the ruination of Scotland
Salvation comes from Jesus. That's the bottom line.
I'm sure brother Calvin and brother Luther would agree on that.
On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician, burned at the stake just outside of Geneva for his doctrinal heresies! Hence, the originator of the popular doctrine of "once saved, always saved" (known in certain circles as "the perseverance of the saints" violated the cry of the Reformation "Sola Scriptura" -- by murdering a doctrinal heretic without Scriptural justification. This event was something Calvin had considered long before Servetus was even captured, for Calvin wrote his friend, Farel, on February 13, 1546 (seven years prior to Servetus' arrest) and went on record as saying:
"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/ashes.htm
nope another wolf in sheep's clothing masquerading as a christian
03 Dec 08
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Originally posted by robbie carrobiemohammed was kind of violent too. torquemada and the inquisition. the popes that caused the crusades. and the list goes on. there are murderers in all religions, you must work to get to the nice stuff.
brother Calvin? brother Calvin? a murdering blackguard more like, just ask Michael Servetus, plus his legacy still lives on in the Scottish islands, those of a Calvinistic disposition sternly warn us drinking and dancing, its the ruination of Scotland
On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish phy ach.org/ashes.htm
nope another wolf in sheep's clothing masquerading as a christian
EDIT: though i can't think of a buddhist psycho. help me out here.
03 Dec 08
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieSorry,
brother Calvin? brother Calvin? a murdering blackguard more like, just ask Michael Servetus, plus his legacy still lives on in the Scottish islands, those of a Calvinistic disposition sternly warn us drinking and dancing, its the ruination of Scotland
On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish phy ach.org/ashes.htm
nope another wolf in sheep's clothing masquerading as a christian
He's still my brother.
When your flesh brother or sister did something bad did that make them NOT your brother or sister anymore ?
So having been born of God we cannot be unborn of God.
Take your complaint to the Father.
03 Dec 08
Originally posted by jaywillcorrection!
Sorry,
He's still my brother.
When your flesh brother or sister did something bad did that make them NOT your brother or sister anymore ?
So having been born of God we cannot be unborn of God.
Take your complaint to the Father.
While he was yet speaking to the crowds, look! his mother and brothers took up a position outside seeking to speak to him. So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” As an answer he said to the one telling him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: “Look! My mother and my brothers! For whoever DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
who really are my brothers and sisters asks the Christ? the ones DOING the will of the father. is murdering and condemning a man the will of the father? which christian teaching was this loathsome fellow demonstrating? forgiveness? kindness? mercy? perhaps it was loving of him to murder the poor fellow on a pretense of a doctrinal difference, for it was nothing less of premeditated murder as attested to by his own words!
nope the father knows who these wolves are and we do too, for the scriptures make it very plain that there will be individuals who will treat the flock of god in an unkind way, drawing people after themselves, even as Calvin demonstrates by his action.
'Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.' - acts 20 verses 28-30
03 Dec 08
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Originally posted by Zahlanzii had extensive discussions with a Buddhist that used to live near my home, he said that it was wrong for a Buddhist even to entertain a violent thought, i admired that! if only 'brother' Calvin was also a Buddhist.
mohammed was kind of violent too. torquemada and the inquisition. the popes that caused the crusades. and the list goes on. there are murderers in all religions, you must work to get to the nice stuff.
EDIT: though i can't think of a buddhist psycho. help me out here.
03 Dec 08
Originally posted by FabianFnasNeither do I, FF. I think it's mostly a case of not understanding---the belief that evolution somehow is in direct opposition to their view of God and, as a result, their entire faith system (afterlife, salvation, ...). I don't ever try to dissuade these people from their beliefs; if it makes one happy to believe that Polar Bears were on the ark with T-Rexes, or that the furthest galaxy can't be more than 6000 light years away, or that God created the universe with the "appearance of age", then I'm tickled to death for them.
Yes on both questions it is.
Why then are there christians who take creationism so seriously so they use the word 'evolutionist' as a pejoriative description of non-believers even if they are christians? Why are they so threatened by people who see evolution as the finest and most brilliant part of gods creation? Why do some people deny evolution, and all science that follows, that they go agressive with it? I don't understand...
As for those who use the term evolutionist as a perjorative, that's where my patience ends. My "live and let live" only works if both sides adopt it. Those people are trying to force their beliefs on others, and that's just unacceptable.
03 Dec 08
Originally posted by PsychoPawnThe words I hear consistently preached are we are saved "by GRACE alone". I am told that there is another large branch of Lutherans (ELCA ?) which is more liberal in their theology, and maybe they push the pre-destination angle more. But you are correct; the Calvinists--and today's Presbyterians are the ones usually linked to pre-destination and "double-predestination".
I thought that was primarily the view of Calvinism, not Lutheran.
I thought the Lutheran view was that salvation came from faith and calvinism was the specification of predestination?
03 Dec 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydWhat do you have to DO so that you can be saved by grace ALONE ?
The words I hear consistently preached are we are saved "by GRACE alone". I am told that there is another large branch of Lutherans (ELCA ?) which is more liberal in their theology, and maybe they push the pre-destination angle more. But you are correct; the Calvinists--and today's Presbyterians are the ones usually linked to pre-destination and "double-predestination".
Thats a self-contraditing question. The answer should be nothing. And if the answer is nothing, then all humans are saved automatically.