03 Dec 08
As for this tribulation-rapture-"left behind" thingy--we are taught that all of that is rubbish. Jesus will return once = the Second Coming. All will be judged: The saved will go with him, the unsaved...well, you know where they go. BibBamBoom! Done. No 7 years waiting for a THIRD coming, and then a 1000 year reign topped with the release of Satan to run rampant, requiring yet a FOURTH coming.
The Day of the Lord will be a very quick, Slam-Bam affair.
03 Dec 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHey robbie pal,
i had extensive discussions with a Buddhist that used to live near my home, he said that it was wrong for a Buddhist even to entertain a violent thought, i admired that! if only 'brother' Calvin was also a Buddhist.
just check this link out; it was a gift from Palynka to me, and I feel free to share it with you too my trusty feer🙂
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Buddhist-Fundamentalism-and-Minority-Identities-in-Sri-Lanka/Tessa-J-Bartholomeusz/e/9780791438336
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by Rajk999"You" don't do anything; God does the saving. Christ said so Himself: He old us that it is He that chooses us, not the other way 'round.
What do you have to DO so that you can be saved by grace ALONE ?
Thats a self-contraditing question. The answer should be nothing. And if the answer is nothing, then all humans are saved automatically.
04 Dec 08
1 edit
Originally posted by PinkFloydpants, absolute and utter!
"You" don't do anything; God does the saving. Christ said so Himself: He old us that it is He that chooses us, not the other way 'round.
While he was yet speaking to the crowds, look! his mother and brothers took up a position outside seeking to speak to him. So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” As an answer he said to the one telling him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: “Look! My mother and my brothers! For whoever DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
04 Dec 08
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobbie,
pants, absolute and utter!
While he was yet speaking to the crowds, look! his mother and brothers took up a position outside seeking to speak to him. So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” As an answer he said to the one telling him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” ...[text shortened]... DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.[/b]
If you know nothing about the indwelling of Christ then how can you really teach about this ? Didn't you say before that you knew nothing about Christ living in you ?
Paul knew much about the normal Christian experience of Christ living in the believer, and he wrote of we cooperating and God operating with us.
"For it is God who operates in you both the willing and the working for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:13)
This is something like "power steering". We cooperate and God operates for our willingness and working His will.
Again Paul wrote in the same letter - "I am able to do all things in Him who empowers me." (Phi. 4:13)
Christ is the one living in Paul empowering Paul to do what he does. So Paul writes that it was not him laboring but the indwelling grace of God. He labored, yet not him, he says, but the grace of God with him.
He said that the excellency of the power was not of themselves but of God the indwelling One within them:
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)
This is like power steering. You turn a little bit and the power of an operating energy steers and strengthens your turning. This is man living in a mingled way with God. This is man living in union with Christ and abiding in Christ as the true vine.
Paul said he, both his goodness and his badness, was crucified with Christ. It was Christ living in him:
"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)
Not I but Christ. Christ the treasure in the earthen vessel.
Paul did not want being found in his own self effort and doing. He wanted to be found in Christ performing the righteousness that comes out of faith in living in union with the resurrected Jesus Chrirst:
"And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in CHrist, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith." (Phil. 3:9)
Paul and his fellow apostles put no trust in the self effort of their flesh:
"For we are ... the ones who serve by the Spirit of God and boast in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh." (Phil. 3:3)
You owe it to yourself to pray and study more about the indwelling Christ as the inward grace. You have ignored this subject. You need to go back and read the New Testament again with this focus on the resurrected and indwelling Christ as grace and life.
Didn't you know "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Christ in resurrection transfigured Himself to become an inward dwelling life giving Holy Spirit to live in His disciples. Only those who have the indwelling life giving Spirit Who is Christ Himself can be really called disciples of Christ.
Have you even allowed Jesus Christ the ife giving Spirit to come into your heart and into your innermost spirit ?? You should invite Him in with no delay.
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFor whoever DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven...
pants, absolute and utter!
While he was yet speaking to the crowds, look! his mother and brothers took up a position outside seeking to speak to him. So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” As an answer he said to the one telling him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” ...[text shortened]... DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.[/b]
And what exactly is the will of the Father, RC?
"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life" (John 6:40).
Ain't it great?!? 😀
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by jaywilljaywill, really i do appreciate your sentiments, and my friend i think that we have spoken of this before, however, does not the text remain true that faith is not, nor can it be a passive entity, that it needs expression in action? for as James states just as the body without the force of life is dead, so too faith without works is also dead. We must note that consistently Christ states that it is the Doing of the fathers will that leads to salvation, for without a doubt as you state Christ 'dwells', 'lives', with the believer, but to what purpose?, other than to produce good works, as Peter states, works befitting Holy people and leading us to repentance.
Robbie,
If you know nothing about the [b]indwelling of Christ then how can you really teach about this ? Didn't you say before that you knew nothing about Christ living in you ?
Paul knew much about the normal Christian experience of Christ living in the believer, and he wrote of we cooperating and God operating with us.
...[text shortened]... art and into your innermost spirit ?? You should invite Him in with no delay.[/b]
to be sure salvation, ultimately is a gift that cannot be earned, make no mistake about it and as humans we are imperfect and will make mistakes, however the Christ must produce works, for every tree or branch not producing fruit gets cut off, does it not?
really i have great respect for you guys, your sentiments and motives are good, and to be honest i have never understood this idea of 'grace', perhaps you may enlighten this poor sinner and reprehensible fellow - regards Robbie.
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by epiphinehasHi, yes epiphinehas, the will of the father? yes to look upon and know the son and believes in him, surely it is a beginning, however as i stated to jaywill, to what purpose does knowing the Christ entail? other than to produce works that are befitting of Holy people and that lead us to repentance?
[b]For whoever DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven...
And what exactly is the will of the Father, RC?
"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life" (John 6:40).
Ain't it great?!? 😀[/b]
one of my favorite scriptures, because it shows gods mercy, justice, love and ultimately patience with us mere mortals also gives us an insight into the will of the father, 2 Peter, 3 verse 9.
'The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.'
is not the will of the father that all attain to repentance? repentance from what? dead works as Paul states, ' how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to the living God', Hebrews 9 verse 14
so quite clearly this 'living', or 'dwelling', with Christ must produce works, cleansing us, leading us to repentance and action, not just a passive acceptance which is a 'primary doctrine', as also outlined in the same chapter of Hebrews - regards Robbie.
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWas there something in this post I was supposed to be unaware of ?
jaywill, really i do appreciate your sentiments, and my friend i think that we have spoken of this before, however, does not the text remain true that faith is not, nor can it be a passive entity, that it needs expression in action? for as James states just as the body without the force of life is dead, so too faith without works is also dead. We mu ...[text shortened]... ce', perhaps you may enlighten this poor sinner and reprehensible fellow - regards Robbie.
Let me ask you this. Do you think that it is significant that James was used to supply us one book in the New Testament and Paul was used to supply 13 or so ?
James is good. But he is a more transitional figure. He boasted of so many believers in Jerusalem who were zealous for the law.
When men came "from James" Peter acted hypocirtically, fearing them. He withdrew from eating with the Gentiles. Paul noticed the dangerous hypocrisy of the Apostle Peter and was forced to confront him to his face publically.
The humbled Peter latter recommended Paul.
James is good. But Paul was more clear about the new covenant economy. So you should not thump on James's epistle so much. He had one foot in the old covenant and one foot in the new. We can sympathize with him because to transition was not an easy one. And he was a very pious man.
But Paul was used by God to supply us 13 of the 27 New Testament books of revelation. So please stop brandishing James to me. Show me that you understand something about the indwelling of Christ, union with Christ, living Christ, abiding in Christ.
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLet's see...you have equated salvation with "...my brother/mother/sister". I would argue that we are not talking apples and oranges here.
pants, absolute and utter!
While he was yet speaking to the crowds, look! his mother and brothers took up a position outside seeking to speak to him. So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” As an answer he said to the one telling him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” ...[text shortened]... DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.[/b]
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydno, i have equated salvation with the will of god, i even put the text in bold and put the word, 'doing', in capital letters so that it may penetrate, to boldly go before, where no other thought had dared to go, you may amuse yourself with apples and oranges if you wish, your postulations still are pure and utter 100 percent unadulterated under pants.
Let's see...you have equated salvation with "...my brother/mother/sister". I would argue that we are not talking apples and oranges here.
04 Dec 08
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillso your reasoning amounts to this
Was there something in this post I was supposed to be unaware of ?
Let me ask you this. Do you think that it is significant that James was used to supply us one book in the New Testament and Paul was used to supply 13 or so ?
James is good. But he is a more transitional figure. He boasted of so many believers in Jerusalem who were zealous for the l omething about the indwelling of Christ, union with Christ, living Christ, abiding in Christ.
Paul wrote more books than James, therefore Paul is more significant, duh????
that James was in your words 'a transitional figure', even though he was martyred for the faith, was that before or after his transition? that James influenced others with regard to law - baseless assertion!
so all in all, no i do not think it significant nor relevant particularly in view of Paul's own words in the book of Hebrews chapter 9, no no, one cannot pick and choose my dear jay will because something does not agree or correspond to church doctrine - the word of god is alive and exerts power and can overturn even deeply entrenched thinking!
05 Dec 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm afraid you may have taken 2 Peter 3:9 and Hebrews 9:14 out of context. 2 Peter 3:9 is not speaking about born-again believers, but of those enemies of God who have yet to repent and place their faith in Jesus Christ. Hebrews 9:14, likewise, is not talking about repentance per se, but the superior sacrifice of Christ's blood and the power which it has to, as Matthew Henry puts it, "enable us to serve the living God by sanctifying and renewing the soul through the gracious influences of the Holy Spirit."
Hi, yes epiphinehas, the will of the father? yes to look upon and know the son and believes in him, surely it is a beginning, however as i stated to jaywill, to what purpose does knowing the Christ entail? other than to produce works that are befitting of Holy people and that lead us to repentance?
one of my favorite scriptures, because it sho ...[text shortened]... 'primary doctrine', as also outlined in the same chapter of Hebrews - regards Robbie.
I agree with your conclusion regarding works (that we are created anew in Christ for the good works which God has prepared for us), except where you seem to suggest that repentance is something a Christian is supposed to look forward to or attain in some manner. But Christ Himself always placed repentance before everything else, and always in reference to sinners, not those who are already made righteous (born-again) -- "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:5), "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance" (Luke 15:7), "the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).
05 Dec 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe shall simply agree to disagree, as gentlemen are wont to do at times. 😀
no, i have equated salvation with the will of god, i even put the text in bold and put the word, 'doing', in capital letters so that it may penetrate, to boldly go before, where no other thought had dared to go, you may amuse yourself with apples and oranges if you wish, your postulations still are pure and utter 100 percent unadulterated under pants.
05 Dec 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydlol, such gentlemanly conduct ! in days gone by i would have skelped you on the head with my glove and asked you to meet at dawn, pistols at the ready, for such a dishonour. but as we are gentlemen, i submit to your greater judgment and salute such gentlemanly conduct.
We shall simply agree to disagree, as gentlemen are wont to do at times. 😀