10 Aug 05
Originally posted by kingdanwaOh boy,
Do you think African Americans are still slaves? If not, who freed them? Did he/she/it have the proper authority to do so? I don't consider Lincoln to be either God or religion. Perhaps you feel that my attack on the "President" is attacking your religious position?
It looks like Kingdanwa has ran with the "Psycho" ball and scored a touchdown!!!!!!
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by sonhouseBy what criteria can you say that Lincoln was ever president?
I am not understanding this thing. Are you implying Lincoln was never
president? What possible differance did it make if he said or never
said "I am President" It doesn't make him more and doesn't make
him less presidential whether he said it or not. How you judge a
leader is by his accomplishments
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by kingdanwaI thought that is what history is about...didnt you go to school? Ever been to a Library?...what is your point?..is anything real?
I'm not discussing "being." I'm wondering how we can evaluate whether or not an historical person ever held a specific office.
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by checkbaitorIf I were to begin to worship Lincoln, would it still be considered "history" or would it then become "religion?"
I thought that is what history is about...didnt you go to school? Ever been to a Library?...what is your point?..is anything real?
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by kingdanwaIt would be worphip pure and simple, no need to invoke religion.
If I were to begin to worship Lincoln, would it still be considered "history" or would it then become "religion?"
As a blues player I worship the original Son House but I don't make
it into a religion. So how do I know that Son House existed? I take
the word of people who were around at the time. If you know
about the story of Masada in Israel around the year CE 33 the
Romans attacked a colony of Jews on the top of the Masada mound,
a 1300 foot high rock jutting out of the ground. The Jews held their
ground for 3 years till the romans built a 1300 foot high ramp
out of dirt and beat down the walls( they were VERY determined)
How do I know that all happened and not a myth?
This one was recorded by an historian by the name of Josephus,
whose name was as reputable as Walter Cronkite. If he wrote it down,
you can believe it happened. Besides, there are photographs of
PRESIDENT Lincoln, what, you can't believe a photo?
11 Aug 05
5 edits
This thread has become quite amusing. My favorite part is that nobody has reacted to sonhouse's "What difference does it make that he didn't say it? Judge him by his actions" post which, for anybody who may still be interested in the real discussion here, is one of the points the original poster is attempting to make.
The onslaught of ad hominem arguments and the slick dodging of the question under study are truly befitting of this forum. I'm disappointed that so many of you can't see through the blatant proof by contradiction, an argument structure which begins by supposing an absurd position. Does anybody really think that the original poster doubts Lincoln's presidency?
Has nobody here ever proved that the square root of 2 is irrational?
11 Aug 05
Originally posted by sonhouseHow would Josephus have known any details of what the Sicarii had said and done inside the fortress?
It would be worphip pure and simple, no need to invoke religion.
As a blues player I worship the original Son House but I don't make
it into a religion. So how do I know that Son House existed? I take
the word of people who were around at the time. If you know
about the story of Masada in Israel around the year CE 33 the
Romans attacked a colony of Je ...[text shortened]... pened. Besides, there are photographs of
PRESIDENT Lincoln, what, you can't believe a photo?
11 Aug 05
Originally posted by frogstomphe was there, talked to the few survivers. Over 900 jews commited
How would Josephus have known any details of what the Sicarii had said and done inside the fortress?
suicide rather than being made slaves by the romans but a few
said, screw that crap! and hid out to live another day, unlike
our modern equivalent, the infamous Jim Jones story.
11 Aug 05
Originally posted by sonhouseHow would these survivors know any details?
he was there, talked to the few survivers. Over 900 jews commited
suicide rather than being made slaves by the romans but a few
said, screw that crap! and hid out to live another day, unlike
our modern equivalent, the infamous Jim Jones story.
"Yet was there an ancient woman, and another who was of kin to Eleazar, and superior to most women in prudence and learning, with five children, who had concealed themselves in caverns under ground, and had carried water thither for their drink, and were hidden there when the rest were intent upon the slaughter of one another. Those others were nine hundred and sixty in number, the women and children being withal included in that computation"
11 Aug 05
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhouseSo, was it the tall hat, or the sign reading "President" that validates these photos? I'm sure I could procure both. Regardless of these alleged photos, you've missed the point. Until you can demonstrate that Lincoln even regarded himself as president (see the opening post for my criteria), I think you shouldn't force your glorious "president" down the throats of so many American children.
Besides, there are photographs of
PRESIDENT Lincoln, what, you can't believe a photo?
Your indoctrination into American Orthodoxy is disgusting. Forcing your later view of Lincoln into our history books in the name of blind patriotism is immoral. Why do you think you're the only one who knows what Lincoln's real position was? What gives you the right? I'm going to raise my children up neutrally. They can decide for themselves how great a fraud/hero he was.
To claim that everyone regards Lincoln as president is uphauling. Universal agreement you say? No dissenters? Perhaps you're right. There happened to be quite the slaying of dissenters from what I understand. It seems to have taken about three years to FORCE universal agreement about "President" Lincoln's position of authority. The crusades of the North did a pretty thorough job of forcing the dissenting South to bend the knee to "President" Lincoln (who, by the way, never said he was president).
11 Aug 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThere's plenty of evidence that people don't understand the 'proof by contradiction' idea. You only have to look at the way people react to no1marauder sometimes.
This thread has become quite amusing. My favorite part is that nobody has reacted to sonhouse's "What difference does it make that he didn't say it? Judge him by his actions" post which, for anybody who may still be interested ...[text shortened]... s nobody here ever proved that the square root of 2 is irrational?
The other point - what difference does it make - reminds me of what happens with art / music and indeed lots of other things - the absurd importance that is sometimes placed on a name. There's a picture that everyone thought was by Rembrandt which had a proud position in the museum that owns it. They eventually found out it wasn't a Rembrandt after all, and now it sits in an obscure little corner. Why? The picture is just as good.
The analogy isn't perfect though, when it comes to people. If we are trying to judge what we think of a person, their own individual words and actions are critical. The fact that the picture isn't by Rembrandt shouldn't really affect our assessment of the picture, but it SHOULD affect our assessment of Rembrandt as a painter.
Frankly, if Abe went around saying "I am President" all the time, I would probably think less of him as a President because I would regard it as a character flaw to be bignoting yourself all the time like that.