We are Body, Soul and Spirit

Originally posted by RJHinds
Why are you now not answering my questions and changing the subject from
the soul going to Heaven to the fleshly body going to heaven? Do you no longer
care if the soul can go to heaven?

I would care if that were the truth but it's not. NOTHING fleshly caan go to heaven. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven". The soul of a person is it's fleshly body....

Originally posted by galveston75
I would care if that were the truth but it's not. NOTHING fleshly caan go to heaven. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven". The soul of a person is it's fleshly body....

The soul is not the fleshly body. It has already been shown to you by scripture
from several people that there is a difference between the body, and the soul,
and the spirit. THE BODY IS WHAT DIES, DECAYS, AND RETURNS TO THE DUST
OF THE GROUND. THE SOUL IS WHAT MUST BE JUDGED AFTER DEATH FOR IT
MAKES ALL THE DECISIONS FOR THE BODY. THE SPIRIT IS WHAT GIVES LIFE
AND YOU DO UNDERSTAND IT RETURNS TO GOD AT THE DEATH OF THE BODY.

You need to read scripture more and less Watchtower material for they are
leading you astray from the truth. Paul informs us at the resurrection of our
bodies that our souls will put on incorruptable flesh like Christ has so we can
also have a body in heaven. Blood will not be needed for our heavenly bodies.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The soul is not the fleshly body. It has already been shown to you by scripture
from several people that there is a difference between the body, and the soul,
and the spirit. THE BODY IS WHAT DIES, DECAYS, AND RETURNS TO THE DUST
OF THE GROUND. THE SOUL IS WHAT MUST BE JUDGED AFTER DEATH FOR IT
MAKES ALL THE DECISIONS FOR THE BODY. THE SPIRIT IS WHAT ...[text shortened]... st has so we can
also have a body in heaven. Blood will not be needed for our heavenly bodies.

what a pile of unsubstantiated drivel, the scripture states that Adam became a living
soul, in other words a living breathing entity, he was not given a soul, he was the
soul, as were the animals and all other living breathing entities, you dont know
anything about the Bible, its like your living in 1543.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what a pile of unsubstantiated drivel, the scripture states that Adam became a living
soul, in other words a living breathing entity, he was not given a soul, he was the
soul, as were the animals and all other living breathing entities, you dont know
anything about the Bible, its like your living in 1543.

You are a liar. I never said Adam was given a soul.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You are a liar. I never said Adam was given a soul.

I never said that you did, i stated that it was Biblical that Adam became a soul, do try
to read the text before making your stupid assertions.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I never said that you did, i stated that it was Biblical that Adam became a soul, do try
to read the text before making your stupid assertions.

Adam was a body first. Then the body was given the life-giving spirit by God.
This made Adam a living soul with a mind. It has already been established
by previous scripture man is body and soul and spirit. When the spirit leaves
the body and returns to God, the body decays and after a time it returns to
the dust of the ground. The soul can not die at this time but must await the
judgment of God, which is now administered by the Son of God, because the
Father judges no man. The souls of some, like one of the thieves on a cross
next to Jesus, go immediately to paradise in the third heaven, where Christ
is now, to await their judgment. Others souls go to a place of torment, like
the rich man, who had everything good in this life on Earth, but ignored the
poor begger.

Originally posted by finnegan
1.) The body of man interacts with the physical universe.

2.) The soul of man interacts with the psychological world of other minds.

3.) The spirit of man substantiates the spiritual world.

This seems to be the most direct and explicit set of definitions offered. It improves on the obscure talk referenced in the OP, where the speaker considers the ...[text shortened]... n effect there is no connection whatever. They are unable to influence each other.

1.) The body of man interacts with the physical universe.

2.) The soul of man interacts with the psychological world of other minds.

3.) The spirit of man substantiates the spiritual world.


But it is not clear to me that these definitions are allowable or have not been superimposed after the event to respond to raised eyebrows.

The revelation of the tripartite nature of man progresses in the Bible along with the progression of God's economy of dispensing Himself into man.

As the latter truth came into focus more and more clearly, until it has laser like clarity in the New Testament, so also the former truth. This is why the distinction of soul and spirit is not as pronounced in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament. For in the New Testament the indwelling of God, the dispensing of God into man, and the spreading of God's life into and permeating man's life is fully revealed.

Along with this clarity the clarity of the distinction of soul and spirit also becomes more clear.

"Soul" as defined here appears much the same as mind - the psychological, subjective, conscious mind.

The soul consists of the mind, the emotion, and the will. While I will not take the time right now to show the full biblical support for this I will give a genuine outline by which we know this.

If you look up all the passages on the soul in the Bible you will see that three matters are covered - thinking, loving or hating, and deciding or choosing.

Based upon the regularity of these psychological functions related to the word soul, we have the realization that the three main functions of the soul are mind, emotion, and will.

Based on the same methodology we find that the spirit of man also consists of three functions. I find these a little more nuanced and difficult to pen down. But the teachers who have persuaded me from the Bible that this is true outline the functions of the human spirit this way:

human spirit = fellowship, intuition, conscience

Now to make matters just a little bit more involved, there is another term in the Bible's description of man. And that is the heart of man. We have seen SOUL has mind, emotion, and will. And we have seen that spririt has fellowship, intuition, and conscience. What then is the heart ?

The heart consists of the three functions of the soul PLUS one function of the spirit. The heart consists then of the SOUL with its functions of mind, emotion, and will PLUS the conscience which is a function of the human spirit.

So then the soul plus the conscience of the human spirit make up the heart of man.

Now I will link you to some websites I recommend for further reading for verification:

"The Tripartite Man" http://www.tripartiteman.org/

I imagine that people wanting individual resurrection are keen to retain their personal identity in the after life, and not content with some amorphous spiritual existence in which they do not in fact persist as individuals with their own memories. So that which persists is usually thought to be a "soul" which is also thought to be the self aware aspect of the mind.

Firstly -

I think that what people WANT is important but secondary to what the word of God teaches. Now I may indeed WANT resurrection. But it is more important that GOD and CHRIST WILL that there be resurrection.

Secondly -

The quality of resurrection is effected by my life in Christ on this side of that event. There is quite a bit that is worthless to God's eternal purpose. I should not look forward to that living again or living on in resurrection.

The resurrection that God consideres normal is the resurrection of the soul saturated with the life and nature of God through the process of sanctification and transformation. The old SELF of the Adamic fallen being God desires to TERMINATE and not resurrect.

That there is a normal high QUALITY of resurrection and a abnormal lower quality of resurrectrion is proven many places. I will only refer to one now in Philippians.

"To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if perhaps I may attain to the out-resurrection from the dead." (Phil. 3:10)

Notice here, our typical religious reaction might be to say to Paul - "Paul, why do you talk about ATTAINING some resurrection ? You know that because you are a Christian you will be resurrected with out you having to ATTAIN it. It is a GIFT."

Nevertheless, Paul has an aspiration here to be counted worthy to ATTAIN an "out resurrection" which we count to mean an "outstanding resurrection" an exemplary and higher quality resurrection.

Be care though. The "out resurrection" is counted as outstanding but not above the standard of God. It is not an "elite" resurrection. It is a resurrection that should be the NORMAL resurrection - (not ABOVE Christ's standard but right AT Christ's standard).

It is normal that the Christian should attain an outstanding, high quality resurrection in which the fallen Adamic self has been denied, crucified with Christ, terminated and the SOUL which resurrects is that transformed soul, sanctified soul, Christ saturated and permeated soul, that soul conformed to the image of the Son of God.

So if you mean I long to be resurrected so that I may have many memories of my sinful life, that is not normal. I do not get to remain the same person forever that I was when Jesus redeemed me. And I do not get to enjoy that fallen man in the next age.

It behooves me, before physical resurrection, to allow God's sanctifying process to conform me, in this life, as much as possible to the image of Christ.

Here again we see the different splendours related to the quality of resurrection in Paul's discussion of resurrection in First Corinthians:

"There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly is one thing, and that of the earthly is another.

There is another glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differes from star in glory.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory, it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power." (1 Cor. 15:40-43)

I think the mentioning of the different levels "glory" and the different degrees of "glory" pertaining to individual stars and other astronomical bodies indicates different levels of glory in the resurrection. Paul wanted to ATTAIN to an "out resurrection" or an exemplary and outstanding resurrection, which should be the norm for the overcoming and victorious Christian.

We may also see in Daniel's prophecy the matter of different levels of glory in resurrection:

"And many of those who are sleeping in the dust of the ground will awake, some to life eternal and some to reproach, to eternal contempt.

And those who have insight will shine like the shining of the heavenly expanse, and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars, forever and ever." (Daniel 12:2,3)

1.) Some resurrection to eternal life
2.) Of these some, because of the insight with which they lived, shine as the heavenly expanse.
3.) Others of these, because they have turned others to righteousness (including gospel preaching) will shine like the stars forever and ever.

4.) And of course the rejectors of God and of the Gospel resurrect to eternal contempt.

So all down the line, we see different qualities of glory in resurrection. Our longing merely to have our old untransformed self rise again is too superficial. We should hope to be arise in His likeness within and without:

"When I awake, I will be satisfied with Your likeness" (Psalm 17:15)

Continued below:

Ignoring questions as to the nature of the "spiritual world," we are presumably to consider that our capacity to acess this (in whatever sense) is something other than mind. Possibly it is to be considered as analogous to one of our "senses" like sight, taste, touch.

And like taste or sense the mind is needed to aid in the interpretation.

We cannot touch God directly with our mind. We touch Him with our spirit. But the mind is needed to aid in the interpretation of what the human spirit touches of the Spirit of God.

The most important One in the "spiritual world" is of course God Himself.

However, firstly the senses are in themselves a property of mind and at the same time an aspect of body - the senses function (and can be observed doing so) as physical phenomena in our nervous system and as psychological phenomena in our mind.

Secondly, the association between "Spirit" and "Mind" is cloudy at best. If "mind" lacks a sense (analogy) by which to have access to the spiritual, then in effect there is no connection whatever. They are unable to influence each other.

At this time I have no comment on your first paragraph which I may not understand.

On the second paragraph, though instrospection will not instantly make crystal clear the matter of spirit from soul discerned as quickly as we would like, a life long progressive spiritual growth renders the distinction more and more clear.

I know very often when my mind is NOT set on the spirit. And I know very often when my mind IS set upon the spirit where there is to be found divine life and peace - "The mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace" (Rom 8:6)

As in the natural life, we often are not AWARE of our bodies unless something has gone wrong. When everything is pretty normal we are not so accutely aware of our bodies, especially the inward parts. But should I have a sickness of some kind, I will become more conscious of my body and that remedy is needed.

So also in the Christian life of setting the mind on the regenerated spirit. As we develop as a Christian, often we are not aware of anything until something is WRONG in our fellowship with God. The normal state that God desires us to be in is divine "life and peace". Now if a sudden temptation and sin or transgression interrupt that fellowship THEN we become aware that we have stepped AWAY from the indwelling Spirit. We realize that we have to RETURN to that blessed state.

So, I think more often the Christians should be aware that something has become WRONG. That is a signal that our mind is NOT set on the spirit. And we need to repent, claim His precious blood's redemption, and return our mind to our mingled spirit where the Spirit of Christ indwells.

The life and peace deepens throughout the entire Christian life. The immovable peace deepens as His life begins to "invade" outward from the spirit of man into the soul of man.

This is why I pointed out that not only the Christian is called to set her mind on the spirit but to be STRENGTHENED into that realm of the "inner man".

And WHY does Paul say there is a need for the believer to be strengthened with power by His Spirit into the inner man ? The strengthening of that BOND and that CONNECTION results in Christ making His home more and more in the believer's heart.

Recall that I said the HEART was the SOUL plus one part of the spirit - the conscience. Well for Christ to make His home in our HEART is for Him to move out from our spirit to permeate, saturate, and have more and more control over our soul, our personality of mind, emotion, and will.

Here's the two versess together to demonstrate this:

"That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man, that Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith." (Eph. 3:16,17)

You see ? I as a Christian, need to be STRENGTHENED into the realm of my Christ indwelt inner man. I need this so that as a result of loging more time in my inner man, CHRIST would make His home in my heart through faith.

I trust Christ to become more and more to me in my personality. I take Christ to be my life. I linger and abide in the realm of my regenerated spirit. And being strengthened to abide more and more in that realm, Jesus Christ, by faith, becomes ME. He makes His home in my heart.

At home a man has authority. At home a man may arrange his house as he wishes. And for Christ to make His home in my heart is for Christ to have the authority to arrange my thinking, my loving and hating, and my choosing, and my sense of conviction more and more as Christ wishes.

This is to transform the believers into the image of Christ.

Originally posted by divegeester
It was a poor choice of word and aimed at RJHinds once again stirring the pot and actually delivering very little in terms of helpful insight.

I don't think I disagree with anything you say in your posts, I just don't feel particularly strongly about it. I do think there is a power/energy that come from the soul, is "soulish" in nature. The "spirit" g ...[text shortened]... no more condemnation'[/i]. I think that's pretty close without looking those up.

I don't think I disagree with anything you say in your posts, I just don't feel particularly strongly about it.

That is ok. These things take time. But if you wish to explore more I encourage reading of "The Economy of God" by Witness Lee.


Doctrinally I had no problem with the human spirit and the human soul being distinct. But it was not practical to me.

Then one month I had a terrible toothache. I requested some Christian pray over me for healing. But God did not heal me. Of course I went to the Dentist too, but could not afford too much good treatment.

Anyway, as a result of the waves of pain which would come over me at times I would slump over and call on the name of Jesus - "Jesus! Jesus ! Lord Jesus!" . I didn't know what else to do.

The more I called out to the Lord Jesus the more I found myself in a kind of chamber or "bubble" of comfort. Even though I was still aware of pain in my outer body, I was protected in some peaceful innermost chamber where there was life and peace.

In that calling on the name of Jesus I said "Boy, a toothache was never so much fun." Actually I was touching my spirit. Actually I was touching a deeper realm in me - my regenerated spirit where the Spirit of Jesus was. I was being FORCED by my situation to enter into my inner man. And there I first discovered that this matter was not just doctrinal, it was PRACTICAL. I touched MY spirit. I now knew MY spirit.

The help of others was crucial for I arrived at place where everyone was calling on the name of the Lord Jesus (toothache or not). And in spirit we worshipped and in spirit we all were unified in Christ.

Then this matter was not just a "right teaching" in a mere doctrinal way. Then this matter of MY soul and MY spirit became very practical.

I no more just "stumbled" over my spirit now and then. I knew how I could at any time SET my mind on my spirit. This is what Paul exhorted - that the believer not set his mind on the flesh (meaning the totality of the fallen man) but set the mind on the spirit.

So I realize these proof texts seem interesting but nor very conclusive. That is until one realizes that as a Christian he can at will TURN to his spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is. He can TOUCH Christ in his innermost being. He can set the mind on his spirit.

Having said this, I add that the Apostle Paul LAST and most important word in the New Testament was his parting word to Timothy in Second Timothy 4:22 .

"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Tim. 4:22)


This is not insignificant as Paul parting word. This is Paul saying in essence:

"Timothy, whatever happens, whatever occurs, you have to always remember - Jesus Christ the Lord is WITH YOUR SPIRIT. Therefore GRACE is with you. Christ's empowering, Christ's wisdom, Christ's enabling, Christ's supporting, Christ's upholding, Christ's strenthening, Christ providing you a way to go on, Christ supplying you is all a matter of Him being with your spirit - YOUR spirit."

In the Christian, the enjoyment of God Himself is all a matter of realizing that CHRIST is with our spirit. Christ is in our spirit.

This final word of Paul sums up all the exhortations of the New Testament. Jesus Christ comes to live in and with the human spirit of the believer. There in that realm is the enjoyment of Christ to be everything we need.



[quote]
I do think there is a power/energy that come from the soul, is "soulish" in nature. The "spirit" give life and comes from the Lord. The spirit is what regenerates the soul. Can I explain the exact source, location or difference of the soul from the mind? No; I only know what is written in the Bible about it and then not much.

I just don't find these discussions helpful, in fact they can lead to to the whole "purgatory" teachings of the Catholic creed etc. I like to keep it simple: 'for man is to live once, then judgement' and 'mercy triumphs over judgement' and 'for those who are in Christ there is therefore no more condemnation'. I think that's pretty close without looking those up.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Adam was a body first. Then the body was given the life-giving spirit by God.
This made Adam a living soul with a mind. It has already been established
by previous scripture man is body and soul and spirit. When the spirit leaves
the body and returns to God, the body decays and after a time it returns to
the dust of the ground. The soul can not die at ...[text shortened]... like
the rich man, who had everything good in this life on Earth, but ignored the
poor begger.

the soul can not die at this time but must await the judgment of God,

this is a nonsense, Adam was a soul, he did not have or process any entity which
transcended death, its simply another instance of Greek philosophical thought which
has infiltrated your religious tradition, anyone can read Plato and see for themselves
where the doctrine originates from. I repeat, Adam was a soul.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The soul is not the fleshly body. It has already been shown to you by scripture
from several people that there is a difference between the body, and the soul,
and the spirit. THE BODY IS WHAT DIES, DECAYS, AND RETURNS TO THE DUST
OF THE GROUND. THE SOUL IS WHAT MUST BE JUDGED AFTER DEATH FOR IT
MAKES ALL THE DECISIONS FOR THE BODY. THE SPIRIT IS WHAT ...[text shortened]... st has so we can
also have a body in heaven. Blood will not be needed for our heavenly bodies.

Uh no one has shown me anything especially from the Bible. Try again?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Adam was a body first. Then the body was given the life-giving spirit by God.
This made Adam a living soul with a mind. It has already been established
by previous scripture man is body and soul and spirit. When the spirit leaves
the body and returns to God, the body decays and after a time it returns to
the dust of the ground. The soul can not die at ...[text shortened]... like
the rich man, who had everything good in this life on Earth, but ignored the
poor begger.

And I still see not ((((((((((((((((( one ))))))))))))))))))))) scripture to back up this nonsense.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the soul can not die at this time but must await the judgment of God,

this is a nonsense, Adam was a soul, he did not have or process any entity which
transcended death, its simply another instance of Greek philosophical thought which
has infiltrated your religious tradition, anyone can read Plato and see for themselves
where the doctrine originates from. I repeat, Adam was a soul.

Have you ever heard of people having "out of body" experiences at death?
If you are an atheist you would probably say these people are hallucinating.
However, some of these people describe things while being operated on in
a hospital that are true and they could not possible see after there body is
believed to have died. Yet they are revived to life and testify to these things.
I somehow can't help from wondering if this is the soul leaving the body.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research11.html

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the soul can not die at this time but must await the judgment of God,

this is a nonsense, Adam was a soul, he did not have or process any entity which
transcended death, its simply another instance of Greek philosophical thought which
has infiltrated your religious tradition, anyone can read Plato and see for themselves
where the doctrine originates from. I repeat, Adam was a soul.

Where in the Holy Bible does it say Adam was a soul. Doesn't it say Adam
became a living soul. Adam is still a soul to this very day.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the soul can not die at this time but must await the judgment of God,

this is a nonsense, Adam was a soul, he did not have or process any entity which
transcended death, its simply another instance of Greek philosophical thought which
has infiltrated your religious tradition, anyone can read Plato and see for themselves
where the doctrine originates from. I repeat, Adam was a soul.

The thought originated long before Plato.

P.S. You have been reading too many Watchtower publications and not enough
Holy Bible.