02 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidCan you give a few examples for context please?
There are a lot of people who divide us into groups putting some up and tearing some down.
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02 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidI boldly suggest Christianity does just that. It divides humans up into those worthy of salvation and those destined for damnation.
There are a lot of people who divide us into groups putting some up and tearing some down. There a common worth we all share?
I put it to you sir that religion gets in the way of what it truly means to be human and denigrates our commonality.
03 Mar 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidFirst of all, I think humans having religions is an understandable upshot of the human capacity for imagination and abstraction and of the human condition generally [especially being aware of one's own mortality and clinging to aspirations that help one to cope with that].
I put it to you sir that religion gets in the way of what it truly means to be human and denigrates our commonality.
Secondly, I think the commonality of a given community or group is almost invariably augmented or cemented by the codes of behaviour rooted in religion and that commonality is enhanced by all the cultural artefacts inspired by religion.
Thirdly, I agree that religious affiliation has often been a staunchly groupist characteristic that has gotten in the way of "what it truly means to be human" because of the carefully [and sometimes not so carefully] disguised demonization or dehumanization of 'the other' rooted in notions of thoughtcrimes which certainly denigrates our commonality as humans.
03 Mar 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWho are the worthy and why in your opinion as you understand Christianity? As I understand Christianity, it has all of us equally flawed in need of a savior to save us from our sins.
I boldly suggest Christianity does just that. It divides humans up into those worthy of salvation and those destined for damnation.
I put it to you sir that religion gets in the way of what it truly means to be human and denigrates our commonality.
03 Mar 19
@fmf saidThe labels are meaningless they add nothing or take away anything. Calling someone by any label does not turn them into something new or different than they really are. You don’t get permission to behave differently than you should by calling yourself something differently than you call someone else. The value is equal in my estimation, you have a different opinion or perspective?
What do you think is the "common worth" you share with me and other atheists?
@kellyjay saidBut your version of Christianity has people who don't believe the same things ~ about a man who died 2,000 years ago ~ as you do being 'deservedly' "tormented in burning flames" for eternity.
Who are the worthy and why in your opinion as you understand Christianity? As I understand Christianity, it has all of us equally flawed in need of a savior to save us from our sins.
You believe, your "sins" are forgiven, right? But if you 'don't believe', the exact same "sins" lead to neverending demented vengeful supernatural violence that appears to have no moral coherence whatsoever.
And yet, you like to claim that, although you believe you are just as "evil and wicked" as non-believers ~ your beliefs and not your "worth" earn you a torture-free eternity in "paradise".
I think Ghost of a Duke is right when he says religion gets in the way of what it truly means to be human and denigrates our commonality.
03 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidThe words "and other atheists" seemed to set you off.
The labels are meaningless they add nothing or take away anything. Calling someone by any label does not turn them into something new or different than they really are. You don’t get permission to behave differently than you should by calling yourself something differently than you call someone else.
"Labels" are useful shorthand. You presumably do not object to being seen and understood as "a Christian".
Anyway, I withdraw the words "and other atheists".
What do you think is the "common worth" you share with me?
We are "equal", is that right?
What makes you say that? What is the "worth" that you perceive?
03 Mar 19
@fmf saidThere is nothing about me that makes me any better than anyone else on my own. Without Christ we are all sinners without hope, but we were made for so much more. Created in the image of our Creator, that makes us very valuable from the least of us on.
The words "and other atheists" seemed to set you off.
"Labels" are useful shorthand. You presumably do not object to being seen and understood as "a Christian".
Anyway, I withdraw the words "and other atheists".
What do you think is the "common worth" you share with me?
We are "equal", is that right?
What makes you say that? What is the "worth" that you perceive?
If you view the 10 Commandments you see everything about us is to be considered Holy too, our lives, even our family, and possessions. God continues to hold each of us so valuable Jesus came to save us because of His love for us!
Your view is what?
@kellyjay saidI am reminded of one of the appaling 'gems' that Romans1009 came out with soon after he arrived here - and it was met with not one word of dissent from his fellow Christians, which means what it means.
Calling someone by any label does not turn them into something new or different than they really are.
He cited caring for his sick mother as one of his two Christian 'good works' in life* [the other one was giving money to charity] but he didn't 'claim' these 'good works' as being attributable to himself - he said they were the work of the "indwelling Holy Spirit".
When pressed on this - not by any of his fellow Christians, mind you - and asked why non-believers care for their sick mothers, he said he had no idea why atheists do such things, he only knew that he did it because he was a Christian.
* His curious claim that caring for his sick mother was an example of a Christian 'good work' was apparently impervious to the imperative conveyed by 1 Timothy 5:8, which Ghost of a Duke confronted him with,
03 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidIf your belief in Christ doesn't make you any better than me, why do I [according to your belief] face eternal torture after I die while you face eternal "paradise"? It seems to me that you claim to have some doubleplusgoodthink that I don't have, and that's all.
There is nothing about me that makes me any better than anyone else on my own.