31 Jan 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo you decides who can give their opinions, and who cannot? Like a real thread-Gestapo?
yes i wrote that, his comments were irrelevant, as other posters besides myself also noted and told him to shut up. If you went to the doctor and the said, doctor i have a sore head and he started havering on about playing the bongos and ignoring the reason why you were there, would you not get up and leave and seek another doctor or remind him of t ...[text shortened]... visit. Well then one should stay on topic or start another thread. Its simply common courtesy.
If anyone ask you to leave, then *you* happily leave?
Do I really believe that?
No, I dont!
31 Jan 11
Originally posted by FabianFnasanyone can give their opinion, whether its relevant or not is a different matter. If one points out its irrelevance then perhaps they may be more inclined to keep it relevent. In your case, i think that you simply need to be reeled in from time to time with a gentle reminder to try to stay on track.
So you decides who can give their opinions, and who cannot? Like a real thread-Gestapo?
If anyone ask you to leave, then *you* happily leave?
Do I really believe that?
[hidden]No, I dont![/hidden]
31 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou know when no one really answers or comments on the point of this thread, that usually means they have no answer or have no idea what the scriptures are speaking of. As you mentioned it was the main theme of Jesus's ministry but it's something that most religions overlook. But then again the Bible clearly says that Satan is the ruler of this world. This is his Kingdom at this time and he does all he can do to blind the majority of his subjects from seeing what Jesus was teaching which was God's Kingdom and the very fast approaching of it here on earth. Satan knows exactly what he's doing.
anyone can give their opinion, whether its relevant or not is a different matter. If one points out its irrelevance then perhaps they may be more inclined to keep it relevent. In your case, i think that you simply need to be reeled in from time to time with a gentle reminder to try to stay on track.
31 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you stayed on-track, there wouldn't be much discussion with you. You go astray every time you are commented upon.
anyone can give their opinion, whether its relevant or not is a different matter. If one points out its irrelevance then perhaps they may be more inclined to keep it relevent. In your case, i think that you simply need to be reeled in from time to time with a gentle reminder to try to stay on track.
Even the last remark you made has nothing to do with "the Kingdom of God". So let the one who always stay on track throw the first stone. Remember?
31 Jan 11
Originally posted by galveston75I really thought the Christians would view it as an opportunity to express their particular belief. Perhaps we have been too harsh with them in the past and have exposed certain inaccuracies rather bluntly. Perhaps they really do have no idea and it remains a mystery to them?
You know when no one really answers or comments on the point of this thread, that usually means they have no answer or have no idea what the scriptures are speaking of. As you mentioned it was the main theme of Jesus's ministry but it's something that most religions overlook. But then again the Bible clearly says that Satan is the ruler of this world. Th ...[text shortened]... gdom and the very fast approaching of it here on earth. Satan knows exactly what he's doing.
31 Jan 11
Originally posted by FabianFnassmiles and nods.
If you stayed on-track, there wouldn't be much discussion with you. You go astray every time you are commented upon.
Even the last remark you made has nothing to do with "the Kingdom of God". So let the one who always stay on track throw the first stone. Remember?
31 Jan 11
3 edits
To be a member of the Vegetable kingdom you must have the life of a vegetable.
To be a member of the Animal kingdom you must have the life of an animal.
To be a member of the Human kingdom you must have the life of a human.
In the New Testament teaching to participate in the kingdom of God you must be born again and receive the life of God into you.
"Jesus answered and said to him, truly, truly, I say to you, Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)
Do not trust any bible teacher who talks and talks about the kingdom of God who does not know what it is to be born anew.
Unless on is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God because he has not received the kingdom life into his being. He has not received the King. He has not received God. So he has not received the kingdom of God. The life of God in Christ implanted in one's innermost spirit brings one into seeing the kingdom of God.
"Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born anew." (John 3:7)
How can I possibly trust any bible teacher who talks and talks and talks about the kingdom of God when he does not believe in being born again, born anew, and born of God.
Anyone who only understands the first natural birth of human parents but does not receive the second birth of regeneration through the Triune God, cannot "see" the kingdom of God.
He may be able to get a concordance and look up "kingdom" and list all the passages on "kingdom of God". Any intelligent person may do that. How can anyone who does not hold that God can live, literally live within a person via the second birth of regeneration, really understand the kingdom of God? He cannot.
31 Jan 11
3 edits
Originally posted by jaywillyes Jaywill that is fine and good, the question of course is, not how one enters into the Kingdom of God (although your comments are welcome), but what is the Kingdom of God. You have as yet not addressed that question. I dont think the triune God is a Biblical term, please try to stay within the confines of scripture, at least, otherwise you may be guilty of declaring, 'a different good news', to the one received by the apostles. It seems to me that you are saying that the Kingdom of God is inside a person, well if that is the case, how are we to view the words of Daniel chapter 2:44?
To be a member of the Vegetable kingdom you must have the life of a vegetable.
To be a member of the Animal kingdom you must have the life of an animal.
To be a member of the Human kingdom you must have the life of a human.
In the New Testament teaching to participate in the kingdom of God you must be born again and receive the life of God into you. ia the second birth of regeneration, really understand the kingdom of God? He cannot.
(Daniel 2:44) . . .“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;
01 Feb 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobie==================================
yes Jaywill that is fine and good, the question of course is, not how one enters into the Kingdom of God (although your comments are welcome), but what is the Kingdom of God. You have as yet not addressed that question. I dont think the triune God is a Biblical term, please try to stay within the confines of scripture, at least, otherwise you may b ...[text shortened]... crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;[/b]
I dont think the triune God is a Biblical term, please try to stay within the confines of scripture, at least, otherwise you may be guilty of declaring, 'a different good news',
======================================
Using the phrase the Triune God is not antichrist teaching. Teaching that Christ is Michael the angel is.
01 Feb 11
Originally posted by jaywillIt is going beyond the things that are written, for there is no such phrase in scripture as 'The triune God'. If there is perhaps you can point it out.
[b]==================================
I dont think the triune God is a Biblical term, please try to stay within the confines of scripture, at least, otherwise you may be guilty of declaring, 'a different good news',
======================================
Using the phrase the Triune God is not antichrist teaching. Teaching that Christ is Michael the angel is.[/b]
(1 Corinthians 4:6) . . .“Do not go beyond the things that are written,” in order that you may not be puffed up individually in favour of the one against the other.
In the case of Christ as Michael, at least we have a scriptural basis for the assertion, whether you accept it or not, this is not the case with the phrase, 'The triune God'.
Never the less, you are going off topic here Jaywill, the topic is, the Kingdom of God, the central most important teaching of Christianity, for which Christ came to the earth to declare and taught his disciples to do the same. It is a concept which runs through the entire Biblical cannon and yet i cannot find on the forum one Christian who can explain what it is! That Jaywill is utterly astounding!
01 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie==================================
It is going beyond the things that are written, for there is no such phrase in scripture as 'The triune God'. If there is perhaps you can point it out.
(1 Corinthians 4:6) . . .“[b]Do not go beyond the things that are written,” in order that you may not be puffed up individually in favour of the one against the other.
In the case of Chris on the forum one Christian who can explain what it is! That Jaywill is utterly astounding![/b]
It is going beyond the things that are written, for there is no such phrase in scripture as 'The triune God'. If there is perhaps you can point it out.
==================================
I have never heard ANY Christian theologian claim that Triune God is a phrase to be found in the text of the Bible. Nor did I ever claim it was.
I don't object to the phrase because the facts of the Bible are that the Father is called God, the Son is called God, and the Holy Spirit is called God.
Those are facts I have in the past and can point out are written in Scripture.
================================
(1 Corinthians 4:6) . . .“Do not go beyond the things that are written,” in order that you may not be puffed up individually in favour of the one against the other.
======================================
It is emphatically not going beyond Scripture to teach that the Bible presents teh Father as God and the Son as God and the Holy Spirit as God. To teach this is to affirm what is written in the Bible.
The phrase Triune God or Trinity is a way to capsulize this revelation. Though it is not a phrase written in the Bible, it is useful.
We are not so naive to believe that just because someone like Arius or Charles Russell restricts himself to biblical terms and phrases they cannot package them in lies and heretical concepts.
For example, Jesus Christ is Michael the archangel. If you were so concerned about what is written why not make a fuss that Hebrews 1:5-8 makes it impossible for us to consider Christ as any archangel rather than God incarnate.
===============================
In the case of Christ as Michael, at least we have a scriptural basis for the assertion, whether you accept it or not, this is not the case with the phrase, 'The triune God'.
=====================================
You are deceived. Hebrews 1:4-8 proves that no named angel, either Gabriel or Michael could be the same person as the Son of God.
You have NO scriptural bases for that teaching. You only have the deception of some twisting done out of the Watchtower Society.
=========================
Never the less, you are going off topic here Jaywill, the topic is, the Kingdom of God, the central most important teaching of Christianity, for which Christ came to the earth to declare and taught his disciples to do the same. It is a concept which runs through the entire Biblical cannon and yet i cannot find on the forum one Christian who can explain what it is! That Jaywill is utterly astounding!
============================
Maybe I can say many things about the kingdom of God. Maybe, I shake my head and think "What's the use?" as far as discussing it with a Jehovah's Witness.
Have you heard the phrase "always learning but never able to come to the full knowledge of the truth"? I fear that you need to go back to something more basic like the "Word was God". That is why I have not written much on this thread about the Kingdom of God.
It is not because I have nothing to write. It is because I think you have not received more basic truths in favor of Watchtower's "another Jesus".
I know that you have many many things to teach about the kingdom. And I also know that many Christians don't know anything about some aspects of Christ's reign upon the earth.
I am probably too hard on you. There is hope for you. But you have been misled about Jesus Christ the Son of God into making Him an angel.
01 Feb 11
Originally posted by jaywillNo you have not been hard on me, I am used to it, you have simply failed to discuss anything in relation to the Kingdom of God. Prior to learning that i was one of Jehovahs Witnesses, you used to discuss things freely and openly, upon learning that i was one, you instantly became hostile. This post is a reflection of that hostility and prejudice, Indeed, the Christ himself witnessed to a Samaritan women, a person of a different faith, why you should not have learnt from that wonderful example of breaking down prejudice i do not know. You are not one of Jehovah Witnesses yet i am prepared to discuss the Kingdom with you.
[b]==================================
It is going beyond the things that are written, for there is no such phrase in scripture as 'The triune God'. If there is perhaps you can point it out.
==================================
I have never heard ANY Christian theologian claim that Triune God is a phrase to be found in the tex ...[text shortened]... u have been misled about Jesus Christ the Son of God into making Him an angel.[/b]
01 Feb 11
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie===============================
No you have not been hard on me, I am used to it, you have simply failed to discuss anything in relation to the Kingdom of God. Prior to learning that i was one of Jehovahs Witnesses, you used to discuss things freely and openly, upon learning that i was one, you instantly became hostile. This post is a reflection of that hostility and prejudice, I ...[text shortened]... t know. You are not one of Jehovah Witnesses yet i am prepared to discuss the Kingdom with you.
No you have not been hard on me, I am used to it, you have simply failed to discuss anything in relation to the Kingdom of God. Prior to learning that i was one of Jehovahs Witnesses, you used to discuss things freely and openly, upon learning that i was one, you instantly became hostile.
================================
This may be true. But it is not without cause.
Robbie, I first seriously turned to Christ around the age of 20 years old. In my early years I got contacted by JWs. They tried to tell me what I had experienced I did not experience. I did not know the Bible well in those days. But I knew what I had experienced and was experiencing.
No one could take that away from me then or now.
That was around 1970. What were you doing in 1970 Robbie ?
Eventually, I got to the bottom of what it was they were doing. I got to the bottom of what they were really teaching, and not only of the errors but also of the true things which are mixed in there with the errors.
Jesus Christ has got to get on the INSIDE of a man's spiritual being. You can get a Strong's Concordance and look up all the verses on the kingdom of God from now until the cows come home.
You have to, LISTEN.... You have to RECEIVE Christ into your innermost heart. And I do not use these terms casually or loosly. You have to receive Jesus to come into you.
So you want something on the kingdom? Okay here's something on the kingdom, not everything, just something:
"For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17)
"Joy in the Holy Spirit" IS the kingdom of God. Notice, Paul does not say what the kingdom of God WILL BE. He says what it presently IS - "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" that is NOW. This part of the experience of God's kingdom is NOW.
But what does Watchtower want you to believe ? They want you to believe that the Holy Spirit is not God. The Holy Spirit to the Jehovah's Witnesses is only some force or power.
But the Holy Spirit is Christ in another form - "The last Adam BECAME a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45). "Now the Lord IS the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)
This is JOY in the realm of a living Person. That is an unusual Person for sure. But He is a living Person. No one else in history can say that they became "a life giving Spirit". But Jesus Christ became a divine life imparting, life dispensing, life transfusing Spirit, an unusual Person Who can live within man's innermost spiritual being.
One receives Christ is also born of God. He is born anew.
The problem is that JWs have the same words but a totally different dictionary. I would shudder to think what they teach you about what it is to be born anew.
=====================
This post is a reflection of that hostility and prejudice, Indeed, the Christ himself witnessed to a Samaritan women, a person of a different faith, why you should not have learnt from that wonderful example of breaking down prejudice i do not know. You are not one of Jehovah Witnesses yet i am prepared to discuss the Kingdom with you.
=========================
Okay. I have in this post done some discussion with you. The KING has to get into your heart. The KING has to get into your spirit. The KING has to be received.
"As the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)
No. I do not mean physically eat.
No. I do not mean taking the physical bread and wine of the Lord's supper.
I mean taking in the available Jesus Who today is "life giving Spirit". I mean receiving the unusual yet living Person so that you can say, "It is ... Christ who lives in me."
This is the basic fundamentals of the kingdom of God. He's the King. We're the dom. When the King gets into the dom you enter into the kingdom.
01 Feb 11
Okay Robbie. You want to talk about the kingdom of God with me.
Okay. Romans said the kingdom of God NOW, TODAY, to the disciples is "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit"
So let's talk about joy in the Holy Spirit. Let's talk about the Holy Spirit because the KINGDOM OF GOD IS .... "joy in the Holy Spirit"
This Holy Spirit is Jehovah God. This Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ.
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
How can the Divine "WE" - the Father and the Son, come into the believers and make an abode with them ? It is only as "the Holy Spirit".
The Holy Spirit is the "life giving Spirit". To GIVE LIFE really means to GIVE a PERSON to us as life. It is to give us a divine Person to be blended into our human life - a union, an incorporation of God and the forgiven sinner. Christ IN you the hope of glory.
The kingdom starts with this life giving Holy Spirit coming into man to bring the Father and the as the Divine "WE" into our being to make a living abode, a dwelling place within the disciple.
The blood of Jesus cleanses and eternally reconciles to God SO THAT... God, the three-one God (Father - Son - Holy Spirit) may come into our being.