What is the theory of evolution?

Originally posted by RJHinds
There are different understanding of karma among the religions.
What is your understanding of it?

i'm not aware of different understandings of karma. the one understanding is that your fate, good or bad, is deserved.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
i'm not aware of different understandings of karma. the one understanding is that your fate, good or bad, is deserved.

True, but while some believe it is a natural result of cause and effect,
others believe God plays a part in it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Atheist fear the judgement of man. Christians are more afraid of the
judgement of God, who can search out all our bad deeds. Atheists
believe they can hide their bad deeds from man and escape any man-
made judgement and there will be no other judgement, because they
are counting on there being no God to judge them.

No. Atheists measure themselves against their conscience. We don't have the luxury of being able to warp and twist scripture to allow us to act in ways that we know are actually wrong, such as cheating at chess, for instance, or lying to people to try and hide our unsavoury attitudes towards others.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
No. Atheists measure themselves against their conscience. We don't have the luxury of being able to warp and twist scripture to allow us to act in ways that we know are actually wrong, such as cheating at chess, for instance, or lying to people to try and hide our unsavoury attitudes towards others.

Atheists have all kind of luxuries to make up their own rules as they go
along. However, atheists are not exempt from the consequences of their
actions for it is God that gives them their conscience, even though they
try to ignore the Holy Scriptures. One of the ten commandment says
not to bear false witness against a neighbor. Make sure your witness is
true, and you will be fine. Bearing false witness is the worst type of lie
for it affects the reputation of another.

Originally posted by RJHinds
One of the ten commandment says not to bear false witness against a neighbor. Make sure your witness is true, and you will be fine. Bearing false witness is the worst type of lie for it affects the reputation of another.

I tell my children, make sure you take responsibility for the reputation you earn and don't blame others for the mistakes you make that affect what people think of you. What did you tell your children on this matter when you were raising them, I wonder. Do they read your RHP contributions?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Atheists have all kind of luxuries to make up their own rules as they go
along. However, atheists are not exempt from the consequences of their
actions for it is God that gives them their conscience, even though they
try to ignore the Holy Scriptures. One of the ten commandment says
not to bear false witness against a neighbor. Make sure your witness ...[text shortened]... fine. Bearing false witness is the worst type of lie
for it affects the reputation of another.

Everyone has the "luxury" of making up their own rules - you do it often - but I will concede that atheists have more personal freedom to do that. The big difference is that atheists do not have to invent a deity with which to support their personal rules or impose them on others, we are effectively each a "religion" of one.

And because of that we have to justify our morality/ethics rather than resort to a bunch of quotes from a fairy-tale book.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Everyone has the "luxury" of making up their own rules - you do it often - but I will concede that atheists have more personal freedom to do that. The big difference is that atheists do not have to invent a deity with which to support their personal rules or impose them on others, we are effectively each a "religion" of one.

And because of that we ha ...[text shortened]... justify our morality/ethics rather than resort to a bunch of quotes from a fairy-tale book.

sigh, such bitterness, the Bible contains in my opinion the most sublime teachings
imaginable, one only has to read the sermon on the mount, Matthew chapters five
through seven to appreciate this. It always pains me to hear persons talk of the Bible
in such unfair tones, indeed, there is no greater exemplar than the Christ, if you can
point one out then do so and state why self sacrificing love is not the most virtuous
course of action? This appears to me to be the superiority of Christianity above all
other teaching and i use the term unreservedly, for it is concerned not with self and self
fulfilment, although as a consequence it naturally occurs, but with other people. All
other teaching that i have studied, the emphasis is on self, atheism of course by its
very nature, is concerned with self, because what else is there, in its opinion.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Atheists have all kind of luxuries to make up their own rules as they go
along. However, atheists are not exempt from the consequences of their
actions for it is God that gives them their conscience, even though they
try to ignore the Holy Scriptures. One of the ten commandment says
not to bear false witness against a neighbor. Make sure your witness ...[text shortened]... fine. Bearing false witness is the worst type of lie
for it affects the reputation of another.

RJH if you are to walk the plank, then i will be sad to see you go. It matters little to
me whether you are a pumpkin eater or not for i realise that such persons are only
deluding themselves and depriving themselves of much of the joy and sorrow of
chess. They will never understand anything about either chess or themselves and
instead exist in an artificial world or minor increments and fourth fifths of a pawn
advantages. All victory under such pretence is hollow and empty, self defeating and
a waste of time. I would hope that you are given the benefit of the doubt and
continue here to make the most outrageous and sometimes biased statements and
even though you are anti Witness i was forced through correspondence to make
sure of my own position and learned much in the process and i am thankful for the
experience, although it seems that all knowledge is being poured into a broken cup -
regards to you and yours Robbie.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
RJH if you are to walk the plank, then i will be sad to see you go. It matters little to
me whether you are a pumpkin eater or not for i realise that such persons are only
deluding themselves and depriving themselves of much of the joy and sorrow of
chess. They will never understand anything about either chess or themselves and
instead exis ...[text shortened]... seems that all knowledge is being poured into a broken cup -
regards to you and yours Robbie.

Rec'd for your magnanimity, robbie. When I think about how my belief system has been forged, however, I think of the impressive people of integrity and spiritual depth I have encountered, known, befriended, loved or lost over the decades. For you to reveal that an acquaintance such as RJHinds has had any significant impact on you forging or 'testing' your beliefs, is rather baffling. Rec'd anyway.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Atheists have all kind of luxuries to make up their own rules as they go
along. However, atheists are not exempt from the consequences of their
actions for it is God that gives them their conscience, even though they
try to ignore the Holy Scriptures. One of the ten commandment says
not to bear false witness against a neighbor. Make sure your witness ...[text shortened]... fine. Bearing false witness is the worst type of lie
for it affects the reputation of another.

There are lots of ways of bearing false witness. One way is to give the impression that you're playing chess fairly when actually that is not the case.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
All other teaching that i have studied, the emphasis is on self, atheism of course by its very nature, is concerned with self, because what else is there, in its opinion.

Perhaps you have not known many atheists, robbie. Those I have known have, by and large, had much more than "self" going on in their lives. They have had spouses, children that they've raised, siblings, parents, and family in general, relatives they have nursed in sickness, or counselled. They have had community and neighbourhood. They have had vocation, shown philanthropy and done good works, including dedicating themselves to others, exhibiting selflessness and generosity. They have, in their workplaces, and in social contexts and organizations, been members of teams, contributed to communal efforts, and helped and supported colleagues. They have shared skills with workmates. Lead people. Inspired people. They have helped to build civil society, resist tyranny, empower others. The list goes on. Perhaps you need to meet more atheists in real life and learn about what makes them tick. You saying trite things like "...atheism of course by its very nature, is concerned with self, because what else is there[?]" to me is just cardboard cutout stuff. You can do better, I think.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sigh, such bitterness, the Bible contains in my opinion the most sublime teachings
imaginable, one only has to read the sermon on the mount, Matthew chapters five
through seven to appreciate this. It always pains me to hear persons talk of the Bible
in such unfair tones, indeed, there is no greater exemplar than the Christ, if you can
point ...[text shortened]... course by its
very nature, is concerned with self, because what else is there, in its opinion.

One of the most intellectually agile christians on this site once pointed out to me that the motivation behind his faith was self-centred as well. Are you honestly trying to claim that you follow your religion for entirely altruistic reasons?

It's a simple fact that being and doing good is beneficial to the psyche. There is no need to dress it up in numinous clothes, and their absence does not negate this principle. There is no correlation between the religious and the good.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It always pains me to hear persons talk of the Bible
in such unfair tones, indeed, there is no greater exemplar than the Christ, if you can
point one out then do so and state why self sacrificing love is not the most virtuous
course of action? This appears to me to be the superiority of Christianity above all
other teaching and i use the te ...[text shortened]... elf and self
fulfilment, although as a consequence it naturally occurs, but with other people.

The problem is, you see the Bible through rose coloured glasses. You are forced to by your beliefs. What is sad is that you can't even put yourself in others shoes and see what they see when they read the Bible.
As for Christ, he failed to speak out against so much wrong. Either he feared for his own safety and some greater plan, or he doesn't even come close to the many people around the world who have spoken out against slavery, cruelty, excessive punishment and other wrongs.
You call Christianity superior because of its supposed selflessness, yet every Christian I know has behaved selfishly, and most try to use selfishness as a means to gain converts. What Christian is not concerned about their immortal soul? What Christian does not preach their religion as a solution to the fear of death?

I have often asked Christians if they would give up their seat in heaven for another, and I have never had an answer in the affirmative. Usually they see the basic problem and simply dodge the question. Can you do better? Or will you as usual ignore me because you are too selfish to admit that you once lied and I caught you at it?

Originally posted by FMF
Rec'd for your magnanimity, robbie. When I think about how my belief system has been forged, however, I think of the impressive people of integrity and spiritual depth I have encountered, known, befriended, loved or lost over the decades. For you to reveal that an acquaintance such as RJHinds has had any significant impact on you forging or 'testing' your beliefs, is rather baffling. Rec'd anyway.

i really thank you for this FMF, an ounce of commendation is worth a ton of
condemnation, it was in the opposing arguments that RJH was gleaning from third party
websites, particularly to do with certain translation of some Greek idiomatic phrases,
his arguments i knew existed but he really brought out every one and in the process of
examining them i was forced to research my own position.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
One of the most intellectually agile christians on this site once pointed out to me that the motivation behind his faith was self-centred as well. Are you honestly trying to claim that you follow your religion for entirely altruistic reasons?

It's a simple fact that being and doing good is beneficial to the psyche. There is no need to dress it up ...[text shortened]... nce does not negate this principle. There is no correlation between the religious and the good.

what other Christians claim, whether they are intellectual gymnasts or not, is
irrelevant, the statement was made with reference to and in comparison to other forms
of worship and/or ideologies. Christianity in its purest form, that exemplified by the
Christ is entirely altruistic. That other Christians have emphasised personal salvation is
to miss the point entirely, time and again the Christ puts emphasis on disowning
oneself, cultivating humility and a self sacrificing spirit. That one may gain certain
rewards for doing so is not the primary motivation, helping others to apply the things
the Christ taught is and it therefore appears to me to be entirely altruistic and in
contrast to almost every other system that i can think of, where emphasis is put on the
self, self awareness, self knowledge, self fulfilment, etc etc .