What 'makes you' believe?

Originally posted by @romans1009
Exposing Ghost was easy after he made the mistake of trying to answer basic theological questions.

Exposing you was more difficult because when you’re trying to obfuscate, which is often, you write these vague, mealy-mouthed sentences that can mean just about anything.

But your mistake in trying to hide in ambiguity is eventually the smoke clears a ...[text shortened]... onder you keep saying you don’t want to discuss it. You’d rather keep the smoke heavy and thick.

I have been crystal clear about why I am not a Christian and I have been telling the truth about not only that but also about how I have explained it. There have been no lies. Ghost of a Duke has also been telling the truth about his education and job. I have also been telling the truth about my education and job. There have been no lies.

Originally posted by @fmf
There have been no lies.

You’ve been lying repeatedly. I gotta say, you’re much better at it than Ghost.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Exposing you wasn’t easy because when you’re trying to obfuscate, which is often, you write these vague, mealy-mouthed sentences that can mean just about anything.

My loss of faith was a gradual process of reflection that resulted in me realizing that I no longer believed the claims that Christians make about themselves and about the meaning of Jesus' life, and consequently, I stopped self-identifying as a Christian and now self-identify as a non-Christian and an agnostic atheist.

I could hardly describe it more clearly and more succinctly.

Originally posted by @romans1009
You’ve been lying repeatedly. I gotta say, you’re much better at it than Ghost.

I have not been lying. I have been telling the truth all along.

Originally posted by @fmf
I have been crystal clear about why I am not a Christian and I have been telling the truth about not only that but also about how I have explained it. There have been no lies. Ghost of a Duke has also been telling the truth about his education and job. I have also been telling the truth about my education and job. There have been no lies.

When you’re trying to obfuscate, which is often, you write these vague, mealy-mouthed sentences that can mean just about anything.

But your mistake in trying to hide in ambiguity is eventually the smoke clears and your carefully-crafted, nebulous, lawyerly - and ultimately meaningless - assertions fall apart under the slightest questioning.

No wonder you keep saying you don’t want to discuss anything. You’d rather keep the smoke heavy and thick.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Exposing Ghost was easy after he made the mistake of trying to answer basic theological questions.

Ghost of a Duke has been telling the truth all along. You haven't "exposed" anything about anyone except your own character.

Originally posted by @romans1009
No wonder you keep saying you don’t want to discuss anything.

In light of your character and behaviour and what you do with people's personal information, I am not interested in discussing my family or my past religious beliefs any more than I have done so already. I am not interested in your questions. I will not reveal any more personal information to a poster like you.

Originally posted by @romans1009
But your mistake in trying to hide in ambiguity is eventually the smoke clears and your carefully-crafted, nebulous, lawyerly - and ultimately meaningless - assertions fall apart under the slightest questioning.

I have not been trying to "hide" anything. I have been telling the truth about having been a Christian in the past and about the process that resulted in me being an atheist.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
In past exchanges with FMF, he has claimed that he cannot choose to believe in something if he doesn't find it credible. So the question is what criteria does someone use to decide whether or not something is credible? Some people find the existence of God to be credible whereas other people don't. Do people have a choice whether or not they want to belie ...[text shortened]... external force that causes people to believe? I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter.

This touches a little on whether Calvinism (or predestination) is valid, but that’s probably worth a thread of its own.

I think God leads people to Him. But I also don’t think He turns anyone away who is genuinely seeking Him. It may be that certain people are destined to be saved but I don’t think it’s true some aren’t.

Some people think God’s knowledge of the future and knowledge of whether they’ll accept His gift of salvation interferes with their free will, but I don’t think so. As long as a person with free will doesn’t know the outcome, I think his or her free will is intact.

Originally posted by @romans1009
This touches a little on whether Calvinism (or predestination) is valid, but that’s probably worth a thread of its own.

I think God leads people to Him. But I also don’t think He turns anyone away who is genuinely seeking Him. It may be that certain people are destined to be saved but I don’t think it’s true some aren’t.

Some people think God’s kno ...[text shortened]... ong as a person with free will doesn’t know the outcome, I think his or her free will is intact.

Jesus said he is the author and finisher of our faith. I sometimes wonder whether Jesus really was the author of someone's faith if their faith is lost along the way. And I wonder whether genuine faith can really be lost. But then again the prodigal son left his father's home but the father was waiting for him with open arms to return. l have understanding for people who loose their faith if they are caught up in a cult or some hypocrisy in their church and became totally disillusioned in their faith. Many of the friends I had while growing up (in the cult I was in) are now either atheist or totally anti-Christian, sadly so.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Jesus said he is the author and finisher of our faith. I sometimes wonder whether Jesus really was the author of someone's faith if their faith is lost along the way. And I wonder whether genuine faith can really be lost. But then again the prodigal son left his father's home but the father was waiting for him with open arms to return. l have understandin ...[text shortened]... le growing up (in the cult I was in) are now either atheist or totally anti-Christian, sadly so.

If someone genuinely accepted Christ, I don’t think they lose their salvation, even if they walk away from Christianity.

But then there’s the question of whether their walking away from Christianity means they did not genuinely accept Christ in the first place.

I used to think, before I became a Christian, that being a Christian meant endless blessings and joy. But that’s really not the case Biblically or in my own experience. But the Christian gets strength and peace to endure difficult times and obviously the best possible eternity.

Originally posted by @romans1009
If someone genuinely accepted Christ, I don’t think they lose their salvation, even if they walk away from Christianity.

A regular poster here, until a couple of years ago, called Grampy Bobby twice assured me that I was irrevocably "saved" because of my Christian past and despite now being an 'agnostic atheist'. He believed and asserted that even if a person only believed in/accepted Christ for an instant, they were "saved" no matter what happened after that.

Originally posted by @fmf
A regular poster here, until a couple of years ago, called Grampy Bobby twice assured me that I was irrevocably "saved" because of my Christian past and despite now being an 'agnostic atheist'. He believed and asserted that even if a person only believed in/accepted Christ for an instant, they were "saved" no matter what happened after that.

Yes, GB often stressed this to anyone who would listen and even a few who would not. One of our first rows occurred after I posted once about not being sure that "faith alone" is all we need. He would not be argued with about this and I just never brought it up with him again.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Yes, GB often stressed this to anyone who would listen and even a few who would not. One of our first rows occurred after I posted once about not being sure that "faith alone" is all we need. He would not be argued with about this and I just never brought it up with him again.

Grampy Bobby's assurances that one is irrevocably "saved" ~ and faces the prospect of eternal life ~ because one believed in/accepted Christ for an instant at some point in the past, of course, don't really mean anything to an atheist, aside from the fact that, in and of itself, it seemed like a bit of ideology that did not make much sense.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Yes, GB often stressed this to anyone who would listen and even a few who would not. One of our first rows occurred after I posted once about not being sure that "faith alone" is all we need. He would not be argued with about this and I just never brought it up with him again.

"I posted once about not being sure that "faith alone" is all we need..."


What, in addition to faith, do you feel is required?