02 May 18
Originally posted by @suziannePerhaps you should have?
Yes, GB often stressed this to anyone who would listen and even a few who would not. One of our first rows occurred after I posted once about not being sure that "faith alone" is all we need. He would not be argued with about this and I just never brought it up with him again.
02 May 18
Originally posted by @romans1009There has been some discussion on Calvinism here. It was short-lived, though, mainly due to apparent lack of interest. There are no doubt some Calvinists here. I do not think they're in the majority, though.
This touches a little on whether Calvinism (or predestination) is valid, but that’s probably worth a thread of its own.
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02 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfIt’s known in Christian parlance as “cheap grace” and “easy believism.”
Grampy Bobby's assurances that one is irrevocably "saved" ~ and faces the prospect of eternal life ~ because one believed in/accepted Christ for an instant at some point in the past, of course, don't really mean anything to an atheist, aside from the fact that, in and of itself, it seemed like a bit of ideology that did not make much sense.
I think the question of whether it’s true comes down to how sincere and genuine one’s belief in Christ and in His Resurrection was. If one doesn’t develop an aversion to sin, as one example, then obviously it wasn’t sincere because God’s Holy Spirit did not indwell him or her.
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Originally posted by @suzianneThe whole subject of predestination is interesting, I think. I can only reconcile the Biblical support for it with free will and the Great Commission by believing it’s limited. In other words, some people are destined to be saved and will be unable to resist God drawing them to Him and the truth of Christ. The rest have a choice. I don’t think anyone is destined to be damned.
There has been some discussion on Calvinism here. It was short-lived, though, mainly due to apparent lack of interest. There are no doubt some Calvinists here. I do not think they're in the majority, though.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeI actually am in agreement with Rajk that one must not only believe in faith (to love God), but that one must put in the work necessary to support their fellow man (to love one's neighbor). Where we part ways is his overwhelming need to judge others and just assume that they do not do this and to call others names for their (assumed) failure to do so, all while failing to provide his own testimony that he, in fact, does so. I'd also like to see his proof that he is "without sin" as he insists that others must be.
"I posted once about not being sure that "faith alone" is all we need..."
What, in addition to faith, do you feel is required?
04 May 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterYou'll pardon me if I refuse to follow the advice of someone who self-describes as "a terrible Christian".
Perhaps you should have?
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04 May 18
Originally posted by @suzianneSo you don't think good works unavoidably follow from being born again?
I actually am in agreement with Rajk that one must not only believe in faith (to love God), but that one must put in the work necessary to support their fellow man (to love one's neighbor). Where we part ways is his overwhelming need to judge others and just assume that they do not do this and to call others names for their (assumed) failure to do so, all ...[text shortened]... so. I'd also like to see his proof that he is "without sin" as he insists that others must be.
04 May 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeWell, they SHOULD. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit SHOULD guide man into working towards the things Jesus talks about in Matthew 25. But too many Christians do get lazy and go to church and then 'call it a day'. Especially in America. But I'm guessing many in other first world nations do the same thing. I'm with him there. But to continually claim that ALL 'churchified' Christians do this is absurd.
So you don't think good works unavoidably follow from being born again?
05 May 18
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Originally posted by @romans1009I've already spent far more time doing the things mentioned in Matthew 25 than I've spent talking about them here, despite what Mr. "Mouth Worship" Rajk thinks.
Everyone on here who talks about “good works” should actually spend that time doing them.
This weekend is gonna be crazy. The Weather Service is saying we'll have an early start to the summer heat with a high temp between 105F-109F on Sunday so we're going to be on the streets in downtown Phoenix, handing out cold water to the homeless, erecting some shade tarps with misters and trying to get more of them signed up for more permanent housing. This upcoming heat snap took us all off-guard because it's been nice the last week or so.
Man, it's going to be hot. So we're going to skip church and get down there early and it's going to be a long day. But these people have nowhere else to go and it's they who will suffer if we do nothing. I've been doing this for ten years plus and summer is always the roughest time for them. The good news is that there's more housing available this year so we'll be able to get more off the streets and out of the heat.
Originally posted by @suzianneRajk999 has never asked people here what 'good works' they do. Nor has he answered questions about what 'good works' he does. The debate has always been about what the correct doctrine is with regard to doing what Jesus commands his followers to do ~ and not about revealing personal information about what posters do.
I've already spent far more time doing the things mentioned in Matthew 25 than I've spent talking about them here, despite what Mr. "Mouth Worship" Rajk thinks.
Originally posted by @suzianneThis weekend is gonna be crazy. The Weather Service is saying we'll have an early start to the summer heat with a high temp between 105F-109F on Sunday so we're going to be on the streets in downtown Phoenix, handing out cold water to the homeless, erecting some shade tarps with misters and trying to get more of them signed up for more permanent housing. This upcoming heat snap took us all off-guard because it's been nice the last week or so.
Man, it's going to be hot. So we're going to skip church and get down there early and it's going to be a long day. But these people have nowhere else to go and it's they who will suffer if we do nothing. I've been doing this for ten years plus and summer is always the roughest time for them. The good news is that there's more housing available this year so we'll be able to get more off the streets and out of the heat.
Do you think that doing things like this is not righteous and mere "dirty rags" if done by someone who doesn't believe in Jesus?
05 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfNo. Most of his time is spent berating Christians for "mouth worship", which he's apparently already judged them as being guilty of.
Rajk999 has never asked people here what 'good works' they do. Nor has he answered questions about what 'good works' he does. The debate has always been about what the correct doctrine is with regard to doing what Jesus commands his followers to do ~ and not about revealing personal information about what posters do.
05 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfNo. Why in the world would I think that?
[b]This weekend is gonna be crazy. The Weather Service is saying we'll have an early start to the summer heat with a high temp between 105F-109F on Sunday so we're going to be on the streets in downtown Phoenix, handing out cold water to the homeless, erecting some shade tarps with misters and trying to get more of them signed up for more permanent housing. T ...[text shortened]... ike this is not righteous and mere "dirty rags" if done by someone who doesn't believe in Jesus?
We're going to have our hands full Sunday. I don't care if Hitchens himself shows up, as long as he's ready to work.
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05 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfThe problem is, saying someone should do “good works” is meaningless without giving examples of what he considers “good works” and how many “good works” one should do a day.
Rajk999 has never asked people here what 'good works' they do. Nor has he answered questions about what 'good works' he does. The debate has always been about what the correct doctrine is with regard to doing what Jesus commands his followers to do ~ and not about revealing personal information about what posters do.
It’s the same with not sinning. That’s a meaningless thing to say without getting into the weeds. Does one lose their chance at eternal life if they commit one sin after accepting Christ? Two sins? A dozen? 100?
The whole salvation by works doctrine is a load of garbage.
Salvation is by faith in Christ and belief in Him and His Resurrection. The indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit follows and will ideally lead one to live in the way God desires. But the Christian is still in the flesh and still in a sinful world and so has to strengthen the influence of the indwelt Holy Spirit on his or her life through regular Bible reading and prayer.