02 Oct 11
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Originally posted by sumydidYes, but they are a majority when it comes to door-knocking.
Believe it or not that is a minority view among professed Christians. I'm astounded and perplexed by that fact.
Just yesterday they were everywhere. Dresses and ties.
So how many door-knocks do you think they do before they get to give a bible lesson? I'm thinking at least one hundred.
02 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by pete3246Pete,
A couple problems I have with the story of Jesus.
First is the dieing on the cross....whats so great about that?... he suffered 3 days and died. I had an aunt who suffered for 40 years with MS. Never lost her faith ...went to church and trust me it was as much physical and mental suffering as a man would go through being nailed to a cross...especially ouldn't he just slam his hand in a door or something and say that clears up every thing?...
I love your post. It's SINCERE and I can tell. Who can help but appreciate your thoughts and your questions.
When you read the Old Testament one obvious consistent theme throughout all of it is, God just simply wants His people to demonstrate their love for Him. That's what the sacrifice was all about. Mankind could never get it right so the Son of God voluntarily entered the world and demonstrated to us what sacrifice is really all about. And God--in that sacrifice--showed us that He wouldn't ask us to do anything He isn't prepared to do Himself.
02 Oct 11
Originally posted by galveston75There are many false teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses so I will just
Exactly by """"scripture"""" what do the JW's believe in that is false? If you can't back up this claim by """"scripture"""" only , don't answer.
start with one and give you a chance to review the scriptures and respond.
JW's say Jesus rose spiritually not physically from the grave. This is a
false teaching because Scripture supplies definite proof that He was
bodily resurrected (not just spiritually speaking).
First in prophecy John 2:19,21 "...He spake of the temple of His body."
Then after the resurrection:
1. The tomb was empty (no body).
Matthew 28:6 (Luke 24:1-3, 12; John 20:1-9, Mark 16:2-6)
2. He appeared visibly to many people.
Acts 1:3 "... He showed Himself alive after His passion by infallible
proofs..."
Acts 13:30,31; John 20:14,16,18; Mark 16:9; Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:34;
1 Corinthians 15:5; Luke 24:15; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:19,20;
John 20:26,29; Matthew 28:10,17; John 21:1, 14, 1 Corinthians 15:6
Acts 1:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:7; Acts 9:3-6; 22:17-21; 23:11;
1 Corinthians 15:8
3. He talked with them.
Matthew 28:10,18; Luke 24:15-17,25-27,36-49
John 20:15-18,22,23,26-29;21:5-6,10-22; Acts 1:3
4. He ate with them.
Luke 24:30,35,41-43; John21:12,15;Acts 1:34; 10:39-41
5.They touched Him.
Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:39; John 20:27
One big difference about the Resurection of Yahshua (Jesus) is that
He raised himself!
John 2:19-21
02 Oct 11
4 edits
Originally posted by pete3246
A couple problems I have with the story of Jesus.
First is the dieing on the cross....whats so great about that?... he suffered 3 days and died. I had an aunt who suffered for 40 years with MS. Never lost her faith ...went to church and trust me it was as much physical and mental suffering as a man would go through being nailed to a cross...especially ouldn't he just slam his hand in a door or something and say that clears up every thing?...
A couple problems I have with the story of Jesus.
First is the dieing on the cross....whats so great about that?
I don't consider the suffering of Jesus to have only started at His cross. I consider that His entire life was a kind of crucifixion. The crown of thorns He wore on the cross symbolized to me that His entire human life of 33 years was crowned with suffering as the prophet says that Christ "was a man of sorrows and aquainted with grief." (Isaiah 53:2)
For God to prepare a Savior who is able to bear us up in any and all kinds of suffering required an entire life time sorrowful experience - "Surely He has borne our sicknesses and carried our sorrows" (Isa. 53:4)
When you think of the crown of thorns placed on His head you should think of an entire life of suffering CROWNED at the end with being nailed to the cross.
... he suffered 3 days and died.
He suffered throughout His entire life. He was dead for three days.
His being turned over to execution was voluntary. He could have summoned 12 legions of angels. When His disciples thought to fight for Him this is what He said:
"Then Jesus said to him, Return your sword to its place, for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword.
Or do you think that I cannot beseech My Father, and He will provide Me at once with more than twelve legions of angels? " (Matt. 26:52,53)
He suffered when it was an alternative for Him to totally wipe out His tormentors.
Twelve legions of angels in Roman terms would be about 36,000 angels.
He voluntarily resisted that act of self defense and instead carried up your sins to the cross for you. The same for me.
Furthermore, Christ suffered on the cross for six hours. The first three hours were the suffering He received from man's persecution. But in the 9th hour, the beginning of the last three hours of crucifixion, it is clear that what happened to Him was of God and not man. Man cannot make an earthquake or darken the sun.
These super human events indicated the phase of His suffering which was Him being smitten by God - " He was CRUSHED because of our iniquities; the chastening for our peace was upon Him ... Jehovah has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him." (See Isa. 53)
He who knew no sin was made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (See 2 Cor. 5:21).
When you transgress, sin, commit iniquity in any way, remember what you are doing is the cause of Christ's going to His cross. It is very personal. While we enjoy our sinning we should remember that it is the cause of the Son of God's agony under the wrath of God on Calvary.
I had an aunt who suffered for 40 years with MS. Never lost her faith ...went to church and trust me it was as much physical and mental suffering as a man would go through being nailed to a cross...
Did you ever ask your aunt how she could endure without Jesus ?
Below you say that believing in Christ gave her peace in mind.
I bet it did more than that. It worked God into her being. It saturated her soul with Christ's divine personality. And in the resurrection and the kingdom that will be her crown of life.
While I do not envy her experience I know that the momentary affliction worked for her to prepare an eternal weight of glory.
I do not claim that life has easy answers. But your aunt passed through what she passed through WITH Christ. And that cannot be in vain.
I knew an woman who also suffered her whole life of MS who was not a Christian. Her soul was extremely strong. Her self was made very stubburn and fortified. It is better that one be saturated with the Spirit of Jesus Christ in such a long hard suffering. It is better to be transformed in soul into His image through trial then to be hardened against God.
I think your aunt would want you to remember how she was able to pass through that trial by a momemt to moment supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. As Paul also wrote:
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us. We are pressed on every side but not constricted; unable to find a way out but not utterly without a way out; Persecuted but not abandoned; cast down but not destroyed;
Always bearing about in the body the putting to death of Jesus that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So then death operates in us, but life in you." (2 Cor. 4:7-12)
The apostles suffer much. But as a result the life of Christ was manifested in them and that testimony of life works to impart the same divine Person as life into the believers.
It would be tragic if the result of you seeing your aunt's faith through her ordeal would be wasted on an unbelieving heart.
I suppose while she seemed limited she was able to intercede for many in powerful prayers for others. She could function in the all important ministry of priestly intercession in her petitions to God.
especially if this man were a "God" and were absolutly certain when he died he would be shedding what must be his awful human bounds....he knew ....actually knew he would die and be "god" once that happened....in my opinion my aunt went thru way....WAY more than jesus,
It would be interesting to hear what she would say about that.
I am pretty sure that she would have said that she could only pass through it through the grace of Christ and by His empowering from within.
Second....and how does Jesus dieing do anything for mankind?...I know about adam and eve and he died for our sins....but why does his dieing have anything to do with mankind sins....couldn't he just slam his hand in a door or something and say that clears up every thing?...
There are things within me that cannot be healed. They have to be terminated. They cannot be reformed or improved. They must be terminated and replaced by a new life.
Beside shedding His blood for my redemption He also TERMINATED many germs through His death. When I turn to the Holy Spirit His death works in me to terminate some bad habits and things which make my life miserable. I cannot overcome them. I cannot escape them. But when I call "O Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus I turn to You" His Spirit brings in the effectiveness of His death. Germs are killed. Temper is killed. Lust is killed. Envy is killed. Anxiety is killed.
His death is the terminating power to kill of many germs in the fallen nature. And His resurrection also works in me to germinate the new life that is pleasing to God and man. I am crucified with Christ. That is a great liberation. It only occurs in the Holy Spirit. In the Holy Spirit is the death and resurrection of Jesus we can APPLY to our lives. And His killing death and empowering resurrection are effectual to transform us into the image of the Firstborn Son of God.
02 Oct 11
Originally posted by jaywillBTW Yahshua was 35 not 33 when He was crucified. Just a minorA couple problems I have with the story of Jesus.
First is the dieing on the cross....whats so great about that?
I don't consider the suffering of Jesus to have only started at His cross. I consider that His entire life was a kind of crucifixion. The crown of thorns He wore on the cross symbolized to me that His entire human life o ...[text shortened]... are effectual to transform us into the image of the Firstborn Son of God.
thing, I know; but I like to be as accurate as I possibly can when
it comes to my Lord.
02 Oct 11
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsRJHinds, I only know of 33 and a half years on the earth lived by Jesus.
BTW Yahshua was 35 not 33 when He was crucified. Just a minor
thing, I know; but I like to be as accurate as I possibly can when
it comes to my Lord.
I never heard about 35. I do know though, that the dates are not certain.
My main point was that the crown of thorns He wore speaks of an entire human life of thorny suffering.
Plus, none of us know what it meant for this One to be under the divine wrath of God, forsaken by the Father, as He was made sin on our behalf.
Since we are not righteous from eternity past how can we ever know what that redemptive act meant to the Son of God ?
Pete should see this.
02 Oct 11
Originally posted by jaywillI know. I was just providing accurate information to you so you
RJHinds, I only know of 33 and a half years on the earth lived by Jesus.
I never heard about 35. I do know though, that the dates are not certain.
My main point was that the crown of thorns He wore speaks of an entire human life of thorny suffering.
Plus, none of us know what it meant for this One to be under the divine wrath of God, forsaken ...[text shortened]... can we ever know what that redemptive act meant to the Son of God ?
Pete should see this.
will not be repeating the error. He was baptized by sprinkling
by John the Baptist when He was 31 or more precisely 31 and 1/2.
He was not 30 as most assume, but about 30.
02 Oct 11
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Originally posted by RJHindsThe age in which a Jew became a priest was 30.
I know. I was just providing accurate information to you so you
will not be repeating the error. He was baptized by sprinkling
by John the Baptist when He was 31 or more precisely 31 and 1/2.
He was not 30 as most assume, but about 30.
I think that is the significance of the age of His finally leaving home, leaving His work as a carpenter in Nazareth, being anointed, baptized and commencing His public ministry.
The priesthood commenced for the typical Hebrew at 30 years old.
John the Baptist was atypical.
Respectfully, I think you got some wrong information there.
But I am curious enough now to look into it.
02 Oct 11
Originally posted by jaywillHe must be at least 30, not exactly 30. No I have gotten the
The age in which a Jew became a priest was [b] 30.
I think that is the significance of the age of His finally leaving home, leaving His work as a carpenter in Nazareth, being anointed, baptized and commencing His public ministry.
The priesthood commenced for the typical Hebrew at 30 years old.
John the Baptist was atypical.
Resp ...[text shortened]... I think you got some wrong information there.
But I am curious enough now to look into it.[/b]
truth. But you don't have to believe it. I just thought you
might like to know.
02 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsDid you not read all the discussions we all had a few weeks ago about how spirit creatures such as angels can materialize into fleshly bodies and be touched, eat, have sexual relations as they did before the flood, etc? They can appear as human as you and I.
There are many false teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses so I will just
start with one and give you a chance to review the scriptures and respond.
JW's say Jesus rose spiritually not physically from the grave. This is a
false teaching because Scripture supplies definite proof that He was
bodily resurrected (not just spiritually speaking).
First in ...[text shortened]... ence about the Resurection of Yahshua (Jesus) is that
He raised himself!
John 2:19-21
Think about Jesus and think about the wound he had on his side when a hand was put in it to see if it were really Jesus resurrected? If that wound were still real, which was a serious one that would cause death, how could Jesus still be alive as a human at that point?
Here is some info on this. One point that most miss about Jesus after his resurrection is that he did not always appear the same..........
JESUS CHRIST needed to die in order to give his perfect human life as a ransom for us. He once explained: “The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (John 6:51) Having given us his flesh, would he ever take it back again? Will Jesus return as a human?
The Bible says that Christ returns in glory with all the angels, and that he ‘sits down on his glorious throne.’ (Matthew 25:31) If Jesus were to come and sit as a man on an earthly throne, he would be lower in station than the angels. But he comes as the mightiest and most glorious of all these spirit sons of God, and he is therefore invisible, just as they are.—Philippians 2:8-11.
Yet there are many who believe that Christ took his fleshly body to heaven, and that he will return in a flesh-and-blood body. They point to the fact that more than once the resurrected Jesus appeared to his disciples in a fleshly body to show them that he was alive. Once Jesus asked the apostle Thomas to put his hand into the hole in his side so that Thomas would believe that he had actually been resurrected. (John 20:24-27) Does this not show that Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body that was nailed to the stake?
No, for Jesus simply materialized or took on a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past. In order to convince Thomas as to who he was, he used a body with wound holes. He appeared fully human, able to eat and drink, just as did the angels that Abraham once entertained.—Genesis 18:8.
Though Jesus appeared to Thomas in a body similar to the one in which he was put to death, he also took on different bodies when appearing to his followers. Thus Mary Magdalene at first thought that he was a gardener. At other times Jesus’ disciples did not at first recognize him. In these instances it was not his personal appearance that served to identify him, but it was some word or action of his that they recognized.—John 20:14-16; 21:6, 7; Luke 24:30, 31.
Consider the manner in which Jesus left his apostles on his way to heaven. The Bible says: “While they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their vision.” (Acts 1:9) So when Jesus began going into the sky, a cloud hid him from the literal eyesight of his apostles. The departing Jesus, therefore, became invisible to them. They could not see him. It was in a spiritual body that he went to heaven. (1 Peter 3:18) The angels present on that occasion told the apostles: “This Jesus who was received up from you into the sky will come thus in the same manner as you have beheld him going into the sky.” (Acts 1:11) Thus Christ’s return also would be invisible, in a spiritual body.
02 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHinds"One big difference about the Resurection of Yahshua (Jesus) is that
There are many false teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses so I will just
start with one and give you a chance to review the scriptures and respond.
JW's say Jesus rose spiritually not physically from the grave. This is a
false teaching because Scripture supplies definite proof that He was
bodily resurrected (not just spiritually speaking).
First in ...[text shortened]... ence about the Resurection of Yahshua (Jesus) is that
He raised himself!
John 2:19-21
He raised himself!"
Ok now who's teaching lies? Are you serious? How can something dead raise itself from death and back to life?