04 Mar 09
Originally posted by epiphinehasI don't know anyone remembering a dialogue, word by word, without errors, fifty years later. I still say hearsay, nothing more. If the dogma says it was the words from Jesus mouth, then it is true religiously, but in reality, no.
[b]Still, it was hearsay, nothing more. And written down 50 years after. Memory has its flaws. Noone can remember word for word what anyone said 50 years earlier. No, it's not the words from Jesus mouth.
In the time of Jesus, what was of tantamount importance to preserve for posterity's sake were those events and interactions from which lessons co ...[text shortened]... hment or eternal life during his short stint on planet earth). Case closed, IMO.[/b]
About Muhammed was sent by god - have you read the Quaran? No? then what do you know? Does any of our moslem friends have something to say about this?
04 Mar 09
Originally posted by whodeyWell, I have my doubts about it will be no doubts. If so, do you think jew and christians finally can agree on somethin, like this? If not, there will be doubts, believe me on this.
According to scripture there will not being any doubt as to who he is when he returns.
04 Mar 09
Originally posted by dystoniacGods ways are mysterious. God allowed nazis to almost kill all jews during WW2, didn't he? Would you really think he would spare us if some crackhead put the finger on the red button? Bush had the finger there, and he thought sriously of using nukes on Iran, at the same time he thought he was sent by god. I wouldn't for sure rely on that.
Don't worry, my Swedish friend, God will NOT allow the world to be destroyed by a nuclear war. You do not have to be afraid. The Bible states that man was originally never meant to die, but because if sin, we do die. To avoid everlasting death, one must come to Christ in repentence and receive Him as savior and believe that He offers eternal life. Jesu ...[text shortened]... hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."
If we rely on that, then why not let Iran have their nukes, god's protecting us anyway, right?
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04 Mar 09
2 edits
Originally posted by dystoniacOf this I am not convinced. God will not get in the way should humankind destroy itself. You have words that you interpret to be otherwise, but no concrete evidence that God would not allow the world to be destroyed. Your quaint platitudes are not enough - and they are not evidence in any shape or form.
Don't worry, my Swedish friend, God will NOT allow the world to be destroyed by a nuclear war. You do not have to be afraid. The Bible states that man was originally never meant to die, but because if sin, we do die. To avoid everlasting death, one must come to Christ in repentence and receive Him as savior and believe that He offers eternal life. Jesu hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."
On the contrary, the Old Testament provides a plethora of accounts that if humans are going to engage upon a path of destruction that God may provide warnings but will not stand in the way of human free will. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that God will do nothing as humankind continues to engage in its evil assault upon any form of life that it chooses.
04 Mar 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasIf you are saying that there will be some surprises with the second coming of Christ, I agree with you.
Well, I have my doubts about it will be no doubts. If so, do you think jew and christians finally can agree on somethin, like this? If not, there will be doubts, believe me on this.
04 Mar 09
2 edits
Originally posted by FabianFnasNo, I do not agree with you to that extent. There will be a second coming of Christ. That is an inevitable event.
The biggest surprise is that there will be no such event. But certain people will invent such an event.
Count me out of your company if you are arguing that Christ will not come.
But, the nature of prophecy often includes an element of surprise TO THOSE who do not have the proper moral response to God's warnings. Prophecy is always in part. There is left a portion of an event which is unknown. Now, if people have a proper moral and spiritual response to God's warning, then surprise is not a problem. But if people do not have a healthy spiritual and moral response to God's warnings then they can be CAUGHT off guard by the element of surprise in the WAY God fulfills His promises.
So I agree with you only to this extent - Some people including some Christians and Jews will be caught by surprise by some aspects of Christ's second coming.
You see, prophecy from God is rarely if ever ONLY for the purpose of tickling your curiosity. It is not prediction in the sense of Nostradamus or Jean Dixon. It is not merely for objective information.
No, Bible prophecy is meant to spark a spiritual response within the hearer turning him towards God in his heart effecting a moral change. This is the difference between Nostradamus type occult prediction and God's prophecy in the Bible.
So without the proper moral response of repentence from sins and turnng towards God, YES, an element of surprise in the WAY God fulfills His word can catch you off guard.
Do you need examples?
Do you need to see how this applies to the second coming of Christ?
I can provide both. But I need time latter today to do so.
04 Mar 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasMy point is that it appears he will not return as a mere man. He already did that, rather, it will be a supernatural event that will set things right on earth with a sword in his hand. Both arrivials of the Messiah have different goals thus different appearances.
Well, I have my doubts about it will be no doubts. If so, do you think jew and christians finally can agree on somethin, like this? If not, there will be doubts, believe me on this.
04 Mar 09
Originally posted by whodeyYour package of ready answers is an indication that Yourself has been hi-jacked😵
My point is that it appears he will not return as a mere man. He already did that, rather, it will be a supernatural event that will set things right on earth with a sword in his hand. Both arrivials of the Messiah have different goals thus different appearances.
04 Mar 09
Originally posted by jaywillThis much I can tell you: If Jesus reappears with all attributes that belong to a son of a (eh) god, then I certainly will be very surprised. I don't think this will happen, hence my surprise.
No, I do not agree with you to that extent. There will be a second coming of Christ. That is an inevitable event.
Count me out of your company if you are arguing that Christ will not come.
But, the nature of prophecy often includes an element of surprise TO THOSE who do not have the proper moral response to God's warnings. Prophecy is always in part ...[text shortened]... e second coming of Christ?
I can provide both. But I need time latter today to do so.
However, I will not be surprised that someone will claim that he is Jesus, the true son of god. People do that every day and they live in places called Happy House and such, and have servants all over dressed in white clothes around them. I've seen them, I've met them. Whenever they are out of the pills, they show themselves very clearly. When one of them claims he is Jesus, I just say to him (or her) that: Yes yes, talk to your doctor about this.
You tell me the differences between Nostradamus and the Bible. Now I'll tell you the similarities between them:
They all have prophecies. Some true, some false. If you have imagination enough, everyone of them can be interpreted as true. But if you critically scrutinize them, you'll see that the prophecies are very shallow. In Nostradamus prophecies, as well as the prophecies of the bible. Samo, samo.
Now, we have to define the very word of prophecy.
I can prophesize that I will run into a tree with my car. Then after a week I do it (Hallelujah). Is this a prophecy? No, because I can easily prove my own divinity by deliberately drive into the tree, alas no prophecy.
Another prophecy is that Jesus would ride into Jerusalem on an donkey, right? Not a horse, not walking, but on a donkey. Prophecy? No, because he chosed a donkey in order to fulfill the prophecy.
My point is that some people call everything a prophecy if it became true. Like me running into a tree. Like Jesus riding a donkey.
People tend to conveniently forget of the prophecies that didn't come true.
But, hey, this is religion, and everything is permitted in the name of religion. If you believe in prophecies, then, by all means, believe in it, it's your religion. 🙂 But don't be surprised that the whole humankind believe in the same as you do. Heaven is after all a limited place to stay.
04 Mar 09
Originally posted by whodeyDo you think jews as whell as christians will recognize the same Jesus? Both groups are awaiting a new Messiah, right?
My point is that it appears he will not return as a mere man. He already did that, rather, it will be a supernatural event that will set things right on earth with a sword in his hand. Both arrivials of the Messiah have different goals thus different appearances.
04 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasI don't know anyone remembering a dialogue, word by word, without errors, fifty years later.
I don't know anyone remembering a dialogue, word by word, without errors, fifty years later. I still say hearsay, nothing more. If the dogma says it was the words from Jesus mouth, then it is true religiously, but in reality, no.
About Muhammed was sent by god - have you read the Quaran? No? then what do you know? Does any of our moslem friends have something to say about this?
Probably no one you know is part of a culture dependent upon oral tradition either.
I still say hearsay, nothing more.
I've shown you why it isn't "hearsay, nothing more." If you still want to say that's all it is, you're simply being willfully ignorant. Of course, nobody owned a tape recorder back then, but that is no reason to believe the details of Jesus' life were not accurately recorded, as I've shown.
If the dogma says it was the words from Jesus mouth, then it is true religiously, but in reality, no.
Not so, as I've already explained.
04 Mar 09
3 edits
Originally posted by FabianFnas=====================================
This much I can tell you: If Jesus reappears with all attributes that belong to a son of a (eh) god, then I certainly will be very surprised. I don't think this will happen, hence my surprise.
However, I will not be surprised that someone will claim that he is Jesus, the true son of god. People do that every day and they live in places called Happy Hou le humankind believe in the same as you do. Heaven is after all a limited place to stay.
This much I can tell you: If Jesus reappears with all attributes that belong to a son of a (eh) god, then I certainly will be very surprised. I don't think this will happen, hence my surprise.
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Maybe I'll come back to this point.
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However, I will not be surprised that someone will claim that he is Jesus, the true son of god.
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We are warned that this would take place. So there is no need that it should surprise us.
"For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Christ, and they will lead many astray ... And many false prophets will arise and will lead many astray ..."( See Matt. 24:5,11)
"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders so as to lead astray; if possible, even the chosen.
Behold, I have told you beforehand. "(Matt. 24:24,25)
Have you not been forewarned by Christ already? I have.
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People do that every day and they live in places called Happy House and such, and have servants all over dressed in white clothes around them. I've seen them, I've met them. Whenever they are out of the pills, they show themselves very clearly. When one of them claims he is Jesus, I just say to him (or her) that: Yes yes, talk to your doctor about this.
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These are people with mentals problems. But the warning is more about intelligent, capable, impressive and eloquent people, who incidently, may perform miraculous acts.
Concerning the final false prophet, the book of Revelation says:
"And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke like a dragon." (Rev. 13:11)
This false prophet has the appearance of a lamb. But in his speaking can be detected the voice of a dragon.
This may mean that though he appears outwardly to be like Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, those with discernment can detect that he really speaks for Satan.
The warning is that appearance is not to be trusted alone. God's people must have the discernement to detect who is speaking through him. He may act and look like Jesus. But there is something amiss in his words. They are the words of Satan the Dragon (Rev. 12:9).
The way of escape is to get to know the speaking of God. Become familiar with the speaking, the ways, the "taste" is you will, of Jesus and of God. If you become well aware of the nature of God's speaking you will not be deceived when the false prophet comes.
But if you are not experienced in knowing the speaking of the Holy Spirit today, you are in danger of being led astray. In fact you may be swept away with the crowd and simply find it difficult to resist such a strong social movement towards Satan's false prophet.
04 Mar 09
1 edit
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You tell me the differences between Nostradamus and the Bible. Now I'll tell you the similarities between them:
They all have prophecies. Some true, some false. If you have imagination enough, everyone of them can be interpreted as true. But if you critically scrutinize them, you'll see that the prophecies are very shallow. In Nostradamus prophecies, as well as the prophecies of the bible. Samo, samo.
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I don't agree. This is like me arguing that a candle and the sun are both lights therefore there is really no difference.
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Now, we have to define the very word of prophecy.
I can prophesize that I will run into a tree with my car.
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I don't agree with your definition.
Some prophecy does not involve prediction at all.
It always glorifies God, intends to turn our hearts toward God, instill reverence, repentence, love for God, and trust and dependence upon God.
Actually to prophecy is not only to speak for God but to speak in such a way as to cause the listener to come into contact with God the Holy Spirit.
Acts 15:32 says "And Judas and Silas, also being prophets themselves, exhorted the brothers through much speaking and confirmed them." Judas and Silas were prophets. Yet it doesn't say they predicted anything but rather exhorted.
So a prophet in the Bible functions to speak so as to turn people toward God through exhortation. Sometimes he or she does so by prediction.
Nostradamus and Jean Dixon and occult predictors like them are simply giving out sensational information for its own sake. It is of the flesh. It has no spiritual content. As a result of listening to their predictions there is no sense of moral repentence or the need to trust in God.
Lumping Bible prophecy in with Nostradamus, I feel, is just the excuse of some people to rationalize not having to listen to the word of God.
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My point is that some people call everything a prophecy if it became true. Like me running into a tree. Like Jesus riding a donkey.
People tend to conveniently forget of the prophecies that didn't come true.
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This not a problem to me, what "people" do.
I seek to develop a vital relationship with Christ. I do not sit back to observe what "people" do and allow that to govern what I should do.
I mean, if I wanted excuses as to why I should ignore the words of Jesus, I can find plenty in what "people" do. But I would not find such rationalization honest.
04 Mar 09
Originally posted by epiphinehasYou think it is the exact word of Jesus mouth.
[b]I don't know anyone remembering a dialogue, word by word, without errors, fifty years later.
Probably no one you know is part of a culture dependent upon oral tradition either.
I still say hearsay, nothing more.
I've shown you why it isn't "hearsay, nothing more." If you still want to say that's all it is, you're simply being will ...[text shortened]... it is true religiously, but in reality, no.[/b]
Not so, as I've already explained.[/b]
I say it is hearsay, nothing more.
We disagree, and that's fine with me.