22 Apr 21
@sonship saidThat’s right, it’s made up! Man made! Not in the Bible!
The Godhead is one. Being under attacks from all sides the brothers of old came up with the phrase "TRI-UNE".
Well done.
22 Apr 21
@sonship said“The Triune God” is a manufactured, man made title which you bizarrely capitalise for some reason.
@divegeester
The Triune God is mysterious yet we can receive and enjoy the Triune God.
God is one not three, it say so in the bible, dozens and dozens of times.
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22 Apr 21
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@divegeester
Yes the NT does say God is one. I just enjoyed that this morning in Galatians 3:20 and many other places.
Now:
"That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me." (John 17:21)
Which one of the "Us" there is not God?
The Father to whom the Son is praying is not God?
The Son who is doing the praying is not God?
Which one of the divine "Us" in John 17:21 is not God Divegeester?
22 Apr 21
@sonship saidSo does the OT dozens of times.
@divegeester
Yes the NT does say God is one.
Nowhere in the bible does it EVER say “god is three” or “god is “triune”.
22 Apr 21
1 edit
@sonship saidThe mystery of God in Christ is just that, a mystery.
@divegeester
Now:
"That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me." (John 17:21)
Which one of the "Us" there is not God?
The Father to whom the Son is praying is not God?
The Son who is doing the praying is not God?
Which one of the divine "Us" in John 17:21 is not God Divegeester?
But your teasing out of “us” to support an entire unbiblical doctrine and associated nomenclature, is erroneous.
Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
- Jesus is the Father made flesh, but lowered below the angels for a time.
- The spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit are one and the same and are interchangeable, as in shown in Acts.
- The same spirit of Jesus was in the prophets in the OT:
1 Peter 1:10-11
Concerning this salvation, the prophets who foretold the grace to come to you searched and investigated carefully, trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.
One entity revealed in several ways.
Not three persons.
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22 Apr 21
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The mystery of God in Christ is just that, a mystery.
I agree with "mystery" being used to describe the nature of God.
But you cannot bring yourself to simply answer that involved with this mystery is that "Us" is a plural pronoun. And in that plural pronoun the Father is God and the Son is God.
So I guess you are afraid to say "both are God" and say it is a mystery.
And I am WILLING to admit "both are God" and say it is a mystery.
But your teasing out of “us” to support an entire unbiblical doctrine and associated nomenclature, is erroneous.
I am not interested in "teasing" you. I am showing the mystery that the church has dealt with for 2,000 years.
I am willing to say "We" means both Father and Son are God in this mystery
I am will to say "Us" mean both Son and Father are God in this mystery.
Now you also want to refer to "mystery" which is fine.
But you don't want to answer that God is spoken of as "Us" and "We".
Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
We have been around and around again and again on this.
That is not a good verse to prove that God is not triune.
I've explained that to you before.
When I did I recall no corrective rebuttal.
The sacred declaration of "The Lord your God is one" uses a word that is a composite oneness. It is used in the two sticks being miraculously joined together to be one in Ezekiel. It is also used for the man and his wife being one flesh in Genesis.
- Jesus is the Father made flesh, but lowered below the angels for a time.
The incarnation of Christ in as the "the Word became flesh" did not make "the Word" not God. "And the Word was with God. And the Word was God."
John said they HANDLED with their hands "the Word of life".
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life.".
The Word of life - the life which was with the Father - was God John 1:1.
They beheld God who had become flesh. They heard, saw, handled, and beheld His glory.
His being made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death did not make Him not the "I AM" of Jehovah God who appeared in the burning bush to Moses.
Now I totally agree that Christ is the mystery of God.
He is a mystery of God we can experience, enjoy, and live within.
- The spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit are one and the same and are interchangeable, as in shown in Acts.
I have been saying for over a decade "Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)
I have been saying for over a decade "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" ( 1 Cor. 15:45).
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22 Apr 21
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But what ELSE does the Bible say?
It has Christ sending the Spirit from the Father.
" . . for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you." (John 16:7b)
"But when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of reality who proceeds from the Father, . . . "(John 15;26a)
It has the Father sending the Holy Spirit in response to the Son's asking.
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever, even the Spirit of reality . . . "(John 14:16,17a)
We have the Son asking the Father to send the Spirit.
The word "persons" may be borrowed to express such a mystery.
But clearly there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
This is the Triune God or triune God.
- The same spirit of Jesus was in the prophets in the OT:
To be precise.
The OT does not say the Spirit of Jesus was in the OT prophets.
It says the Spirit of Christ was in them.
Thankyou for supplying the reference. [my bolding]
1 Peter 1:10-11
Concerning this salvation, the prophets who foretold the grace to come to you searched and investigated carefully, trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them . . . "
Jesus had not be born.
And John speaks of "the Spirit was not yet because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:39)
The Spirit was eternal and in Genesis hovering over the face of the deep.
So how can John say "the Spirit was not yet"?
The word given as in KJV the Spirit was not yet given . . . is added editorially by translators. Literally it is "for the Spirit was not yet".
Now how could John say the Spirit was not yet given if the Old Testament prophets had the Spirit within them as 1 Pet. 1:10,11 says ?
The Spirit had only the divinity of God before the resurrection of Christ.
In resurrection the Spirit contained the man Jesus.
And to be resurrected was Jesus entering into His glory Luke 24:26.
"Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into His glory?" (Luke 24:26)
The another Comforter, the Holy Spirit was the eternal Spirit with not only God's divinity but the humanity of the born, died, and resurrected Jesus.
So we believe in function "the Christ" was in the eternal Spirit.
But the Spirit that was not yet was the Spirit of the resurrected Jesus in a sense adding the incarnated God-man and all His work as a man into the eternal Spirit.
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
The Triune God has gone through these steps for the purpose of reaching man to be imparted into man to be the life of the redeemed.
This has been described as the economical trinity and the essential trinity.
Though Jesus Christ comes into man in the form of the Holy Spirit - the life giving Spirit there is also a distinction of the Son and the Spirit. They are two - one. And the three of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three-one.
One entity revealed in several ways.
Not three persons.
Tritheism teaches of three Gods. This wrong for God is one.
But Modalism says no two modes of God can be in on the scene at the same time.
And this is not the case in the Bible.
"And having been baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him. And behold a voice out of the heavens, saying This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight." (Matt. 3:16,17)
So the Bible shows a co-inherence of each living in the other yet also a distinction when all Three are present distinctly at one time.
22 Apr 21
@sonship saidTeasing “me”? What are you on about, I said “teasing out of ‘us’”
But your teasing out of “us” to support an entire unbiblical doctrine and associated nomenclature, is erroneous.
I am not interested in "teasing" you.
It’s a completely different meaning.
22 Apr 21
@sonship saidYes, god said let us make man in our own image; it’s not a new point that you are making and it doesn’t support a man made erroneous doctrine about trinity and triune.The mystery of God in Christ is just that, a mystery.
I agree with "mystery" being used to describe the nature of God.
But you cannot bring yourself to simply answer that involved with this mystery is that "Us" is a plural pronoun. And in that plural pronoun the Father is God and the Son is God.
So I guess you are afraid to say "both are God" an ...[text shortened]... e been saying for over a decade "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" ( 1 Cor. 15:45).
22 Apr 21
@sonship saidWhat you believe about 3 distinct personalities is essentially tritheism in my opinion.
But what ELSE does the Bible say?
It has Christ sending the Spirit from the Father.
" . . for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you." (John 16:7b)
"But when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of reality who proceeds from the Father, . . . "(John 15;26a)
It has the Fa ...[text shortened]... f each living in the other yet also a distinction when all Three are present distinctly at one time.
What I believe in is what the bible says, that God is one, not three in one (which is just a fudge).
Gosh is one, no made up words, no extra-biblical doctrines, nothing added, nothing taken away.
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22 Apr 21
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@divegeester
You have the right to say you don't want to use the word "Trinity" or say "triune God" imo.
You have that right.
I have the right to search the human language to try sometimes to express the mysterious nature of God revealed in the Bible.
No verse says you have to say "TRINITY" to be a Christian.
I think it would benefit you to see that on one extreme is Tritheism - three Gods and on the opposite extreme is Modalism - only one mode can exist at one time.
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22 Apr 21
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Yes, god said let us make man in our own image; it’s not a new point that you are making and it doesn’t support a man made erroneous doctrine about trinity and triune.
While you are suspicious of me for speaking of triune God I also am perplexed about you.
When did I see you confess Jesus as LORD ?
Why is the Son of God bereft of His office of Son of God after the millennium?
And why if you have believed into Jesus do you have such revulsion at Christian brothers and sisters rejoicing in the redeeming blood of Jesus so as to sing about a fountain filled with blood washing away our guilty stains?
So while you say "I don't know about YOU sonship" I could say "I don't know about YOU either."
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22 Apr 21
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Poems and hymns about Christian salvation CANNOT use some combined expressions not located in ONE PLACE in the Bible?
If I tell you of the fountain for sin an impurity you say " Yea, but that's not a fountain filled with blood."
If I tell you of the blood pouring out of the side of Jesus for our redemption you say "Yea, but that is not a fountain filled with blood for our sins."
And I am suppose to say "WOW !!! This guy REALLY sticks to the Bible" ?
I question if you have any EXPERIENCE of Christ's salvation.
I'd LOVE to be debunked on this. Love it!
Tell me Jesus is your personal Lord and Savior without a maverick universalist / unitarian fancy dance. Do you LOVE my LORD Jesus Christ as your LORD too ??
I would love to be embarrassed on this one.
22 Apr 21
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@sonship saidThe bible has nothing about accepting Jesus as your PERSONAL saviour. Jesus never told anyone to accept Him as their saviour, personal saviour, intimate saviour. These are all fabrications of the church
Tell me Jesus is your personal Lord and Savior without a maverick universalist / unitarian fancy dance. Do you LOVE my LORD Jesus Christ as your LORD too ??
Jesus said 2 things are required for eternal life
- belief in God [as distinct from a profession of belief]
- brotherly love.
These are the Greater Things on which one must focus.
22 Apr 21
@divegeester saidIn fairness, the bible itself is man-made too.
“The Triune God” is a manufactured, man made title which you bizarrely capitalise for some reason.
God is one not three, it say so in the bible, dozens and dozens of times.