16 Apr 21
@sonship saidYou don’t think it’s a little odd then that Jesus was praying to himself?Why was Jesus praying to the father in heaven when the father was actually inside him?
Why not?
He totally loved His Father.
Where ever the Father is the Son in His bosom loves Him to the uttermost and the Father the Son.
What difference does it make where the Father is if the Son loves Him to speak, petition, fellowship, commune with.
Had ...[text shortened]... en one of the twelve disciples would you expect Him to ask you for permission first before praying?
I ask this because when I talk to you about the oneness of the godhead, you frequently throw this in my face “what was Jesus praying to himself?” you always ask incredulously.
And yet now, when it suits you, you are defending Jesus praying to himself. Do you see the intellectual dishonesty in your position?
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16 Apr 21
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You don’t think it’s a little odd then that Jesus was praying to himself?
The Triune God is mysterious yet we can receive and enjoy the Triune God.
I see no passage stating that Jesus was praying to Himself.
I do see passages about Him being called Eternal Father, and to see Him was to see the Father, and the Father was in Him and He in the Father.
I ask this because when I talk to you about the oneness of the godhead, you frequently throw this in my face “what was Jesus praying to himself?” you always ask incredulously.
The Godhead is one. Being under attacks from all sides the brothers of old came up with the phrase "TRI-UNE".
He is "Wonderful" in His incarnation and His interceding.
He is "Wonderful" in His resurrection too.
In fact God is astounding in His bringing into existence the entire vast universe out of nothing.
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16 Apr 21
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But the Godhead is one. And we need make no apology for it being a great mystery because the New Testament told us so -
" And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, . . . etc. " - 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
And yet now, when it suits you, you are defending Jesus praying to himself. Do you see the intellectual dishonesty in your position?
I didn't say He was praying to Himself.
I said He is seen both in the Christian (Rom. 8:10) and at the right hand of God interceding (v.34).
Paste in and quote the words written by me "Jesus praying to Himself".
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16 Apr 21
@sonship saidIf the Godhead is one, why are you attempting to crack Him open and squeeze man inside?
But the Godhead is one. And we need make no apology for it being a great mystery because the New Testament told us so -
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If the Godhead is one, why are you attempting to crack Him open and squeeze man inside?
" . . . and the Word was God" (John 1:1) . . . "And the Word became flesh" (v. 14)
This is God becoming man.
"For in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Col. 2:9)
This is the incarnation of the Godhead as a man.
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be God to him, and he will be a son to Me." (Rev. 21:7)
This is God in eternity producing many sons with His life and nature yet not His Godhead.
Together they are one living entity.
There is a NT passage which speaks of some people "always learning but never able to come to the full knowledge of the truth". (See 2 Tim. 3:7)
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16 Apr 21
@sonship
'It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.'
Isaiah 40:22
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16 Apr 21
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSo what?
@sonship
'It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.'
Isaiah 40:22
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Grasshoppers refers to men on earth.
Jesus was the second man is out of heaven.
"The first man is out of the earth, earthy; the second man is out of heaven." (1 Cor. 15:47)
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16 Apr 21
@sonship saidIndeed. Men on Earth have no place in the Godhead. Our fate is not deification.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Grasshoppers refers to men on earth.
Jesus was the second man is out of heaven.
"The first man is out of the earth, earthy; the second man is out of heaven." (1 Cor. 15:47)
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@ghost-of-a-duke said“None of us are or can be God in His Godhead as an object of worship.”
Indeed. Men on Earth have no place in the Godhead. Our fate is not deification.
From Life Study of First and Second Samuel by Witness Lee
And I have already explained that any use of "deification" used in the local churches is not in the sense of, let us say, the Roman emperors like Nero made themselves gods.
We do not use glorification or deification in that sense.
We use it in much the same way Eastern Orthodoxy spoke of theosis as an element of salvation.
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17 Apr 21
@sonship saidAgreed. Witness Lee is nearer to the cannibalistic Korowai tribe of south-eastern Papua, where they consume people to inhabit them, take on their power. Lee attempts to do this with God, seeks to consume Him at every opportunity to take on His divinity.
“None of us are or can be God in His Godhead as an object of worship.”
From Life Study of First and Second Samuel by Witness Lee
And I have already explained that any use of "deification" used in the local churches is not in the sense of, let us say, the Roman emperors like Nero made themselves gods.
We do not use glorification or deification in ...[text shortened]... We use it in much the same way Eastern Orthodoxy spoke of theosis as an element of salvation.
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17 Apr 21
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidYour real cynicism is with the New Testament itself.
Agreed. Witness Lee is nearer to the cannibalistic Korowai tribe of south-eastern Papua, where they consume people to inhabit them, take on their power. Lee attempts to do this with God, seeks to consume Him at every opportunity to take on His divinity.
It was Jesus Christ who said we should "eat" Him in order to live because of Him.
"As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)
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21 Apr 21
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Agreed. Witness Lee is nearer to the cannibalistic Korowai tribe of south-eastern Papua, where they consume people to inhabit them, take on their power. Lee attempts to do this with God, seeks to consume Him at every opportunity to take on His divinity.
Your cynicism is against the Bible which repeatedly speaks of God as food.
Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. - an allusion to FOOD
"Just taste and see that the Lord is good" an allusion to FOOD.
"They all ate the same spiritual food:" an allusion to FOOD.
"He who eats me even He shall live because of Me." an allusion to FOOD.
"I am the bread of life" an allusion to FOOD.
"Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood you have no life in you." an allusion to FOOD.
"Let us therefore keep the feast" an allusion to FOOD.
"I will give him to eat of the tree of life" an allusion to FOOD.
"He shall come in and feast with me and I with him." an allusion to FOOD.
"I fed you with milk not meat." an allusion to FOOD.
"Take eat, this is My body" an allusion to FOOD.
Taking in FOOD and assimilating it and digesting it is used to teach how man is to take in God Himself is all throughout the Bible.
22 Apr 21
@sonship saidI didn’t claim there was.
@divegeester
I see no passage stating that Jesus was praying to Himself.