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I’m pretty much done with discussing this with you, I find you to be dishonest and deaf. It’s a poor combination.
I do not think I am dishonest to repeat that God was manifested in the flesh in Jesus the Son of God according to (1 Tim. 3:16)
I do not think I am dishonest to repeat the being highly exalted "Far above all rule and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come." (Eph. 1:21)
And there is nothing dishonest about saints using the phrase the Triune God.
@sonship saidThere is something dishonest and false about a man professing to be a saint and not ever preaching to people the GREATER THINGS that Paul identified. Instead these fake preachers only preach lesser things that lead to damnation.
And there is nothing dishonest about saints using the phrase the Triune God.
Paul called these people dull of hearing :
Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. (Hebrews 5:11-12 KJV)
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@divegeester
I didn't notice this post before. But I'll respond.
My description, my metaphor “offices” is not a global erroneous doctrine impacting believers in it, their entire perception of the godhead and how people worship God.
Grow up. Be honest.
When you say only offices were manifested in Matthew 3:16,17 when the Scriptures says that the Son of God, was God manifest in the flesh, that effects, I think, people's concept of the Godhead.
Ie. It is as if you are saying - Only the office of Son was manifested there. The Godhead [you'd say] was not manifested in the flesh there.
But all the fullness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell in Him bodily. (Col.1:19;2:9)
John said that the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father has declared God. (John 1:18) Not just the office of son was declared in Christ but God Himself was declared.
God is Spirit (John 4:24). And "He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him." I don't what is considered dishonest or none grown up to confess that God Who is Spirit manifested Himself as a dove to Jesus during His baptism."
And I don't know what would be childish or dishonest about believing that "a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight" is that Father's voice.
And Triune God is not an immature expression or a dishonest one.
Was the voice speaking "My Son . . . found My delight" the voice of someone who was NOT the Father of the Son ?
Or was this just the ventriloquist skills of the Son throwing His voice to the heavens to convey something about offices?
@sonship saidI find you to be one of the most intellectually dishonest people I’ve ever met. This post of yours which I’m replying to is intellectually dishonest, you don’t even know why do you?
I do not think I am dishonest to repeat that God was manifested in the flesh in Jesus the Son of God
I do not think I am dishonest to repeat the being highly exalted "Far above all rule and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come." (Eph. 1:21)
And there is nothing dishonest about saints using the phrase the Triune God.
@sonship saidI don’t care whether you use or don’t use any, or all, or none of the metaphors of “offices” or “images” of “manifestations” of “types” as a way of understanding my point about God being one entity, and not three.
@divegeester
Or was this just the ventriloquist skills of the Son throwing His voice to the heavens to convey something about offices?
To be honest sonship, I really don’t care what you believe and I’m bored of exchanging with you on these matters.
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@divegeester
I can see that it is very important to you to maintain firmly this revelation - that God is one. That is very good and I agree with God is one.
Now you can dismiss my further writing in this post if you wish.
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But for anyone still reading it is important to me to convey that "eternal life" I think, means not only eternal in duration. I think it must mean eternal in quality. In enter penetration and co-inherence God is the eternal life.
I think the mysterious three-oneness of God, eternally and at one moment being Father - Son - Holy Spirit is the unlimited qualitative eternal life that the Bible says He is.
"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God and eternal life." (1 John 5:10)
The Triune God Himself is the eternal life, the limitless, divine, utterly profound, qualitatively infinite eternal life into which the redeemed may enter.
Anything or anyone or any matter exalted above the Triune God is an idol. So John's last sentence in this epistle after this verse 20 is -
"Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (v.21)
@sonship saidNo, you don’t. You think god is three distinct people in one being.
@divegeester
I can see that it is very important to you to maintain firmly this revelation - that God is one. That is very good and I agree with God is one.
What you do is deceive yourself that god is one, but god is also three. You don’t need to explain this contradiction because you are in denial of the obvious contradiction, and you explain it away as a mystery.
What I say is the god is one who appears in three manifestations, in fact more than three. I say there is no trinity, it simply doesn’t exist as a multi-headed divine being.
What you believe and what I believe are completely different concepts which impact the believer’s perception of the identity of god, how to pray and where sovereignty lays.
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Concerning First Corinthians 15:28 when the Son subjects all things to Him who has subjected all things to the Him [/b] [the Son] ?
"And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected all things to Him, that God may be all in all."( 1 Cor. 15:28)
What I think is sometimes overlooked in this passage is a WHAT IF.
WHAT IF it is the continued will of the One who subjected all things to the Son that the Son continue unto eternity still as the Head over all things?
What if this utter act of humility of the second of the Trinity to the First of the Trinity is not met with the Father grasping back authority. But rather the Father's continued will is that the utterly humbled and Father honoring Son CONTINUE to reign with all things under His feet.
We see in Revelation 5:12,13 that the Redeemer, the Lamb and the One Who sits upon the throne receive the ultimate worship FOREVER. There is no cessation of the honoring of the subjected Son. Rather the eternal worship is to both Him and the One on the throne Whom He serves.
"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and all things in them, I heard saying,
To Him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever." (Rev. 5:13)
"Forever and ever" adoration and/or acknowledgment is to both. It is not honor to both temporarily but honor to one forever and ever. It is universal worship to both "Him who sits upon the throne AND to the Lamb"
The concept of the so-called "office of Son" is concluded, terminated, made no more to be in existence, or however Divegeester would put it, is not what the Bible teaches.
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And there it is, that mystery again. A supposed “mystery” covering up the denial of the contradiction.
It is not covering up. It is confessing the profound paradox.
It is probably inevitable that when finite man comes into contact with the eternal uncreated God there is something incomprehensible to the limitations of our minds.
But we can partake of and enjoy this profound paradoxical Person of the Triune God.
@sonship saidIt’s not a “concept”, I never said it was, you’re making it up, being dishonest again.
The concept of the so-called "office of Son" is concluded, terminated, made no more to be in existence, or however Divegeester would put it, is not what the Bible teaches.
You’re trying to hard sonship. Aim instead to reply to what I did post instead of creating staw men to rail against.
@sonship saidYour version of god is THREE PERSONS not one. You’re being dishonest again.
But we can partake of and enjoy this profound paradoxical Person of the Triune God.
By the way, using words like “partake” doesn’t add any more biblical gravitas to your post than using “paradoxical” makes your belief in a multi-headed god less of a contradiction.
@sonship saidNo, I think it’s quite straightforward God is one person, not THREE.
@divegeester
It is probably inevitable that when finite man comes into contact with the eternal uncreated God there is something incomprehensible to the limitations of our minds.
Simple.
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@divegeester saidAnd the byproduct of your so simple denial of the side of the three __________ is that the Son of God has a temporary office. And that is heretical.
No, I think it’s quite straightforward God is one person, not THREE.
Simple.
[I might insert the word "Persons" but lack of human language to express this is indicated by "__________." - a blank.]
To stress the oneness of the Triune God and suppress the tri-ness of Him you have to come up with an error that the Son's "office" is not forever and ever.
"But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom." (Hebrews 1:8)
You see both the throne of the Son and the scepter of the Son denote His kingdom and authority. And all three are "forever and ever".
Wouldn't the dishonesty be in your denying that the kingdom, scepter, and throne of the Son of God are forever and ever?